Let's NOT Send More Troops to Afghanastan
I'm reading that the Obama administartion is planning to send 30,000 more US Troops to Afgahanstan in 2009 which will bring American troop strength to 60,000.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081220/D956L7L80.html ![]()
I supported the original mission to overthrow the Taliban, however, I am skeptical of sending more American Troops into this war front, and not just for the very valid reason that other countries should be contributing more. Before we increase troops on the Afghan front, this is a good time to re-evalute the Afghan mission and the war-on-terror in general. Understand that I have no moral problem with sending America troops to foreign lands to fight and kill the terrorists. I'm just questioning how productive it is, and whether there is a better approach.
I have advocated that the most effective way to fight the war-on-terror is thru immigration policy. Let me explain this out-of-the-box idea.
I'm sure everyone has heard this before, but it remains true to this day: naming the enemy is half the battle. If we can't name the enemy, then how can we devise a strategy to fight back. Is the enemy Al Queda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Taliban, Hezbollah...and so on? These are all radical islamist groups. IMO, a paradym shift in outlook has to occur before we commit yet more American troops overseas to Afghanastan and elsewhere. In my view we were attacked by radical islamists on 911 and the attacks were jihad attacks. Likewise the London subway, the Madrid Train bombings, the night club attacks in Bali, the suicide bombings in Israel, the video taped be-headings and on and on--you know the drill. The jihadis tell us in their video tapes, speeches, and websites, that these attacks are done in the name of Allah, and I believe them. There are moderate muslims (the majority) and there are radical islamist (the minority) and the radicals islamists are at war with the non-muslim world and with their own moderate moderates.
I know that some posters here will have a hard time accepting that in the 21st century religion can be a motivator for these murderous attacks. Consider this:
The consistent need to find explanations other than religious ones for the attacks says, in fact, more about the West than it does about the jihadis. Western Scholars have generally failed to take religion seriously. Secularists, whether liberal or socialists, grant true exploratory power to political, social, or economic factors but discount the plain sense of religious statements made by the jihadis themselves. To see why jihadis declared war on the United States and tried to kill as many Americans as possible, we must be willing to listen to their own explanations. To do otherwise is to impose a Western interpretation on the extremists, in effect to listen to ourselves rather than to them. (page 7)
Knowing the Enemy: Jihadist Ideology and the War on Terror by Mary Habeck
(My working definition: a radical islamist is one who wants to establish sharia law in the host country or believes in jihad attacks as a way to settle internaitonal disputes.)
I propose we re-orient our war against radical islam to start from the inside (the United States and other western countries) to the outside (their country of origin). The best way to let the enemy--the radical islamists--know that we take them seriously is not to continue to send our military half way around the world to fight them, but rather to deny them residence in our countries. Sounds simple, right? I am saying before we send yet more troops to fight the enemy overseas, we stop enemy sympathizers and potential enemy combatants from residing in our countries. It will send the right message and greatly improve our internal security.
I would not give any more green cards, tourist, student or work visas to radical islamists and any non-citizen radical islamists would be legally deported. Before you jump all over me, consider that barring someone from traveling to this country or deporting them is not the death penalty, nor is it permanent internment. It simply means the person can't reside here. They can return to their country of origin and continue to be a radical islamst there over there.
Here is a stupid example to make the point. Let's say that during WWII someone sought to immigrate to the USA and we asked them to fill out a form which asked if they were a Nazi sympathizer. And they check the "yes" box. Would we admit them? That's the concept at work here.
I know the above is thin on specifics. Still I'd like to get feedback on the concept.
A few stipulations:
1. Yes, there are religious crazies in Christianity, Judiasm, Hinduism who we must keep under surveillance and prosecute when necessary.
2. Yes, the above may pose constitutional problems that must be addressed.
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Comments :
Hmmm....
You make some good points.
We already do, to the best of ability, track "Radicals" in the islamic world, and certainly routinely deny them access to travel within our borders.
I don't think any terrrorist worth their weight in goats milk would check a yes box though?
What you are proposing begs a deeper question in my view, and that is the general domestic security of the US.
I for one would be a big fan of kicking the UN out of our country, and withdrawing our membership in the UN all together.
1) I think most people undervalue the fact we are fighting this war on their home court, and not in the subways, airports, water treatment plants, and clean air of America. So say what you will about GW, but he has effectively taken the war to these pri*ks. And that is a very big deal ladies and gentlemen.
2) This victory in Iraq is a huge defeat for the whole jihad crowd, let me tell you that. They thought after 9/11 Allah was on their side, and the great Satan was about to go down...well it turns out to be just another script for a John Wayne movie, the good guys win again. And why? Because we got up in their faces, in their home towns and beat their a**es for what they've done.
and 3) A win in Iraq is big, yes, but a win in Afghanistan is huge! It would in effect be case closed next case in the court of world opinion, but more importantly in the minds of the people in the middle east. That's why they fought us so hard in Iraq, because with an American victory comes peace, clean water, jobs, education, etc., and those are all things the terrorists can not tolerate.
Anyway, hard to nail this one down in a quick post, but thanks for being comfortable enough in your own skin to man uo (or lady up) and say some things that need saying.
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
Red_Wing:
Sending more of our troops into Afghanistan would produce an even bigger, worse quagmire than Iraqis or Americans ever even dreamed of. It would be too dangerous.
Quagmire?
It's not so much because it would be a quagmire, like Vietnam. We do, after all, win all the battles, and public opinion in the US sees the Afghan War as worthwhile. It's that I see the ideological threat from Radical Islam as the primary enemy. It undermines and takes advantage of democratic instituions. Look at the UK, where they are considering to allow sharia law to govern muslim immigrant groups.
name the enemy, win the war
winning battles ... so what?
What does it matter if we "win all the battles"--that way of judging progress weems to place the wrong paradigm on this war. Battles matter if they destroy the emeny's ability to wage war (troop strength, resource control, etc), but there's no indication that winning battles matters in Afghanistan. The Taliban (the losers) are still able to keep the central government (the winners) from controlling territory, and they are still able to recruit more soldiers.
In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.
Winning the battles? How?
By invading, bombing and destroying countries and killing/maiming innocent civilians just because their government(s) don't tally up with the United States' interests? Uh uh...no way. This is not going to work. We have no business in Afghanistan, let alone Iraq.
It is not an optional enviroment...
...We are committed to the process, to many lives have been lost, to many dollars have been spent, and our reputation around the world is on the line.
We will... go into Afgahnistan in a signifigant way, and we will... get results.
I do not see any other alternatives, we are in a WAR.
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
"we are in a WAR" That's just what the terrorist want.
Only one of those aren't sunk cost.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Ahhh....
...like welfare, food stamps, free cable TV, etc, etc, etc...ya what a great expenditures those have turned out to be.
I wonder if Eisenhower thought to himself, "How will we ever pay for this deal"...or did he focus on making sure that at whatever cost - we would defeat the enemy?
You are making a fundamentally flawed assumption and asserting that the terrorists want us in this war!
What BS!
Absolute nonsense!
They wish, they pray every day and every night that Obama would be elected, and we will be our usual tired, fat, spoiled selves, and sink into the liberal malaise we have been heading towards, and that the US would take a F'ing hike back where we came from, so they can claim victory, oppress the people, and get back to the task of attacking us here where we live, instead of it being the other way around!
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
ideology, not religion
In this situation, I think that religion is treated like any other ideology. This dispute over the relative importance of ideology vs. material issues in politics is much broader than just the radical islamism. I think I've seen this dispute in communist debates, typically between Marxists (materialists) and anarchists (ideologists). I also see it in our own society between conservatives (ideologists) and liberals (materialists)...where liberals figure that the best ideology (i.e. the ideology that is most appropriate/sensible given the material conditions of the world) will inevitably win out in a free society.
Anyway, the problem with the above proposal (from a liberal perspective) is that some authority needs to decide which ideologies are acceptable. This would undermins the "free marketplace of ideas" and is prone to abuse.
I think it is quite sensible but probably nothing new to close the borders to those who advocate violence (regardless of their justification, though of course, we're going to be keeping a particularly close eye on radical ismalists)
In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.
I am proposing the
radical islamist ideology is one we can all agree is dangerous and individuals so comitted to same should kept out. You are correct that it does undermine the liberal concept of a "free market place of ideas", so this is a troublsome concept and certainly could be prone to abuse. That said, I don't think we (the USA) have any choice. It's simply too dangerous to continue to allow entry to individuals who hate our culture and way of life in the hopes that somehow, thru contact with our education and civil government, they will change their attitutes. And it's not just advocating violence, this should apply to those who seek to impose sharia law on the host countries muslims or the population in general.
I believe anarchists at the turn-of-the 19th to 20th century were kept out or deported based on this concept.
name the enemy, win the war
Give GW a big thanks...if you have the integrity to do it...
The peaceful polling was remarkable and so were the results. All the Islamic parties lost ground, especially that associated with the so-called “Shia firebrand”, Moqtada al-Sadr, whose share of the vote went down from 11% to 3%. The principal Sunni Islamic party, the Islamic Party of Iraq, was wiped out.
The only Islamic party to gain ground was the Dawa party of the Shia prime minister Nouri al-Maliki - and even that party dropped the word Islamic from its name. The power of Maliki, who has emerged a stronger leader than expected, is further enhanced by these elections. Now no Islamic parties will be able to control any provinces on their own. The election is thus a big defeat for Iran which had hoped that Shia religious parties would control the south and enable Iran to turn them into a mini Shia republic.
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman