A Consensus on "Intellectual Property"?

As some know, there is a small chance I may run for US Congress in 2010 due to my dissatisfaction with how much of an issue "intellectual property" (mostly copyrights and patents) is in national politics.

Before I put forth my ideas, I'd like you at SC to put forth what you have to say on the matter.  Here are some questions you may want to consider:

 

1) Do you believe that copyright is a natural right or part of a social contract? 
2) Do you believe that the current copyright term is about right*?
3) Do you believe the current civil remedies for violating someone's copyright are about right**?
4) Do you believe that the Constitution allows for Congress to retroactively extend the term of copyrights that have already been granted***?

I look forward to your thoughts.

 

*The current term is the life of the author + 70 years.  For corporations, the term is 125 years after creation or 95 years after publication (whichever is earlier).

**Current civil remedies are $750 - $30,000 per work infringed; for willful infringement the maximum is raised to $150,000; for infringement that occurs where the infringer had no reason to believe the work infringed was copyrighted the minimum is lowered to $200.

***The Constitution states:

Congress has the power ... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Comments :

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Some feedback

1. It's obviously a social contract, it doesn't exist outside of a formalized legal system. There's nothing natural about it, especially since it's a rather recent innovation.

2. The current copyright term is far too long. As your quote from the Constitution states, it's purpose is To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, not to maximize the potential revenue to the creator of the work.

3. The remedies are ridiculously out of line. I'd recommend something along the lines of a small multiple of the cost of the work pirated, not several orders of magnitude larger.

4. Congress can retroactively extend or shorten the term of copyrights.

 

Hell, if you run on this issue I'll send some money your way.

…………

I appreciate your enthusiasm

I asked the first question because some people believe copyright is natural in that people should be able to bear the fruits of their own labor.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

I'm anti-IP in general

I'm not all that big on property law in general but at least it makes some sense when talking about a localized object that cannot be simultaneously in the possession of two people at the same time.  "Intellectual Property" is nothing more than an attempt to treat ideas as property, and hence as a commercial object.  It is a means to put art and science under the yoke of capitalism and it retards our progress as a species.

If someone passes off someone else's work as their own then the proper remedy is to sue them for fraud.

 

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

an old blog post of mine on IP

http://tlaloc.gnn.tv/blogs/1605/Thought_Ownership

 

One correction to that post- Poe wrote what's generally regarded as the first mystery, not the first horror story.  A stupid mistake on my part.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Exactly wrong

The framework of intellectual property law has allowed people to profit from their own ideas.  Where the laws are applied fairly and all else is equal, the ideas with more merit tend to generate the higher returns.  This has fostered a period of unsurpassed technological progress in the past few centuries.

Everybody likes to chase the almighty buck, even you Tlaloc.  Most people won't make it their live's work figuring out ways to improve the human condition unless they see the possibility of some personal profit from it, and that includes the most brilliant sceintists and inventors. 

If someone passes off someone else's work as their own then the proper remedy is to sue them for fraud.

But I wouldn't even have to pass the work off as my own.  Let's say you had this great idea for a new microchip, and you drew up the plans and so forth.  Then let's say you had hired me to help you manufacture the chip and get it to market.  But, being the sleazy guy that I am, I secretly come in with my trusty digital camera, photograph your plans, and take them to somebody with deep pockets who can bankroll the facilities to manufacture the chip and make an agreement with them to split the profits.  I don't even have to pass the plans off as my own; I just say that I got them from "some guy".  They produce the chip before you get a chance to get your own chip to market and so you get nothin.  According to you, this should all be completely legal, right?

………… parent

No, Skymutt

People have profitted from their ideas since the dawn of time, IP laws are a recent invention.  It doesn't mater if people intend to improve the human condition, their small advances do so anyway, so long as those advances are free to spread, rather than being jealously restricted.

 

 

But I wouldn't even have to pass the work off as my own.  Let's say you had this great idea for a new microchip, and you drew up the plans and so forth.  Then let's say you had hired me to help you manufacture the chip and get it to market.  But, being the sleazy guy that I am, I secretly come in with my trusty digital camera, photograph your plans, and take them to somebody with deep pockets who can bankroll the facilities to manufacture the chip and make an agreement with them to split the profits.  I don't even have to pass the plans off as my own; I just say that I got them from "some guy".  They produce the chip before you get a chance to get your own chip to market and so you get nothin.  According to you, this should all be completely legal, right?

 

 Legal, sure.  But that's what civil contracts are for.  You and I sign a contract where I give you my chip idea and you agree to pay me $x.  Then you can do whatever you want with it.  I'm also free to sell it to others, so you know you can't just sit ont he idea.  In essence what you are paying for is me to explain to you how to make a better chip.  You don't own the idea of the chip.  Neither do I since you can freely turn around and either manufacture it or teach someone else.

The benefit I get is whatever price I convince you to pay for it, as well as the possible fame when you manufacture (or teach otehrs about) "Tlaloc's Chip".  You can refuse to mention my name in connection (so long as you don;t claim it is your own invention) but it's doubtful that complete silence will be maintained.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Clarification, por favor

I'm not sure your example addresses what skymutt said:  I think he was referring to an employee, hired say as plant manager, deciding to sell the plans for the chip to a competitor and in effect beating his employer to market with the chip.   Would your scenario then include the employer making formal contracts with each employee who has access to the information?  Expecting the average employee to be able to "pay" his employer for the idea they are being exposed to doesn't seem feasible to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Also, would the absence of any formal copyright protection laws make any such civil contract challengable in court?   

 

………… parent

So what if he does?

Why should an employee be precluded from telling someone else about the chip idea?  If the original employer is so inefficient that even with a head start their rival can get the chip to market first then don;t they deserve to be out of business?

From this perspective IP law is a market distorting force that the libertarian types should abhor.  You don;t deserve to win just because you had the idea first, you deserve to win if you can implement the idea better.

 

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Copyright is really a mirror

By that I mean that you can argue for or against it from both a libertarian perspective and a statist/socialist perspective.

From this perspective IP law is a market distorting force that the libertarian types should abhor.  You don;t deserve to win just because you had the idea first, you deserve to win if you can implement the idea better.

You (and RW downthread) have stumbled upon an easy-to-spring trap.  IP encompasses patents and copyright, but the two really have little in common.  Copyright is mostly about copying a design.  Patents are about utilizing a process.

With copyright, if I come up with the same design independently of you I'm in the clear.  With patents, I'm still on the hook for patent infringement.  In fact, I'm still on the hook if I utilize the patented process at all; this includes consumers/end users.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

I'm not seeing the trap

both copyright and patents fall under the heading of IP.  I don't particularly support either.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Practicality, not philosophy

I'm looking at your rebuttal to skymutt from a practical standpoint, not a philosophical "well this is best because it frees the markets" point of view.  If we were to implement a new and improved IP process, the dilemma skymutt raised has to be addressed in the real world.   

Why should an employee be precluded from telling someone else about the chip idea?  If the original employer is so inefficient that even with a head start their rival can get the chip to market first then don;t they deserve to be out of business? 

I'm going to assume that was a serious point, and not philosophical snark.  One reason would be that small, independent entrepreneurs could be severely handicapped by this approach.   The large companies with capital at their disposal would easily take the best ideas and either sink them as being potential threats to their market (e.g. those missing "Impact " electric cars) or coopt them into their existing plans to dominate their niche.  Any serious look at changing IP laws has to take those issues into consideration.  The last thing we need is further stifling of innovation.

………… parent

To use a buzz word

getting rid of IP would create a very different business paradigm, but contra to your assertion here that doesn't favor the big business over the small, it's just different.  Right now IP heavily favors big business for several reasons-

1) big businesses have the spare resources to devote to research and once the idea is researched (and patented) it's off limits to others.

2) Big business has the cash to make nuisance lawsuits a viable strategy.  If you came up with a browser that was a real threat to windows you can bet one of the strategies MS would use to help keep you down is making you fight costly legal battles by claiming you infringed their IP.  Coke kept Bob Kolody tied up in court until he died:

http://silverback.gnn.tv/blogs/7590/Rest_In_Peace_Bob_Kolody 

http://www.grumpymen.com/CSJ/csj_coke.htm

IP also favors producers of artistic material over the artists themselves (for fairly similar reasons).  Neither of those skews is particularly desirable.

Or to put it another way- if getting rid of IP was the boon to big business that you think it is, why are there no big businesses lobbying for that?  They know where their interests lie, and they've shown that they vastly favor rigorous, even draconian, IP laws.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

I don't disagree with any of

I don't disagree with any of that.  In fact, that's why big business isn't pushing for more openness; because the current system does work well for them and they have lots of experience in playing in that playground.  But deep pockets can adapt to regulatory changes. 

I'm simply trying to explore what a new paradigm might look like in practice, if we do choose to move from where we are to where we think we might need to be.   But I don't get the sense that you've thought further than you've already explained, so I withdraw my questions. 

………… parent

ouch

I'm a little pressed for time right now but I'll try to write up a more comprehensive view of what the business world would look like post-IP.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Only if you wish to

I just assumed from the certainty of your post and your prior comments on this topic in the past that you had already thought those things through.  It's not an area that I've spent much time considering yet and was merely seeking your POV before I composed a more general response to Stinerman's diary.   You are sometimes quite an out-of-the-box thinker and I find that helpful when considering complex problems :-)

………… parent

An idea

I'm simply trying to explore what a new paradigm might look like in practice, if we do choose to move from where we are to where we think we might need to be. 

Copyright (even of a limited duration) enables businesses to make profit on selling copies of their work.  Software is the prime example.

Microsoft puts tons of money into making software.  They are able to recoup their costs via copyright by spreading the costs of development to everyone who buys their software even though the marginal cost of creating a copy is probably less than $.01.

Free/Open Source Software cannot rely on selling copies due to the way the licensing agreements work.  If I create a program that is FOSS, I may sell it to anyone I want for any price.  However, whomever I sold it to may also sell it or give it away for free.  Econ 101 tells us that if there is an infinite supply and a finite demand, the price will go to zero.

Red Hat and Novell deal in FOSS and make money.  They give away the software and make the money on providing support and customization.  Writers of FOSS often get donations from thankful users or are contracted to add a feature to their work. 

What levels the playing field in terms of a free market is that anyone sufficiently skilled in programming can add the feature.  Rather than begging a proprietary software publisher to make the software how you wish, you can have someone else change the software, or you may do it yourself if you are so inclined.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

getting rid of IP would

getting rid of IP would create a very different business paradigm

But you haven't demonstrated that the paradigm is workable or just.  When presented with a reasonable scenario where your paradigm seems to offer nothing but the shaft to an innovator and great rewards to a dishonest unfaithful scumbag, you shrug your shoulders. 

Big business has the cash to make nuisance lawsuits a viable strategy

So why shouldn't we just reform the laws to minimize this?  Your objections to IP on their face do not seem to require the abolition of IP law.

if getting rid of IP was the boon to big business that you think it is, why are there no big businesses lobbying for that?

For the same reason that big business is not asking for the right to enslave people, or the reintroduction of debtors prisons.  Sure, it would be cheaper to maintain slave labor, and it would be handy to wield the threat of imprisonment over those who owe you money, but most people would think that reforming the law to allow these practices would be absurd.

………… parent

See my reply above to PF

I'll try to write up something substantial about how such a system might work.  That said business will always favor the unethical because it's, you know, business.  That has nothing to do with the presence or lack of IP laws.

 

 

For the same reason that big business is not asking for the right to enslave people, or the reintroduction of debtors prisons.  Sure, it would be cheaper to maintain slave labor, and it would be handy to wield the threat of imprisonment over those who owe you money, but most people would think that reforming the law to allow these practices would be absurd.

 

On the contrary they don't lobby for those things because they mostly have them already.  We have a system that pretty much guarantees you have a large population of people pushed to criminal activity at which point they are whisked off to privately contracted prisones where they manufacture goods for pennies an hour.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_19_15/ai_54736555

more on the charming company wackenhut:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/05/09/60II/main193636.shtml

There's no reason for them to change the system because they get the best of both worlds- essentially slave labor and the ability to make it look legitimate (to say nothing of the various illegal immigrants used as another near-slave work force).

 

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Oh come on...

If the original employer is so inefficient that even with a head start their rival can get the chip to market first then don;t they deserve to be out of business?

You didn't get beat to market because you were inefficient-- you just didn't have a ready-made way to produce your product, and probably didn't have funding either, so you needed  to put together the coin to bankroll your new enterprise based on your idea.  Then once you did that, you had to have your factory built, hire staff and so forth.  You were as efficient as possible in getting your new enterprise up and running; but you got beat to market because your idea got ripped off by a greedy associate and sold off to a company who already had manufacturing facilities in place. 

Basically your way, the big guy will always be able to squash the little guy with an idea-- just oil the palms of someone willing to commit corporate espionage, you'll be rewarded every single time.

From this perspective IP law is a market distorting force that the libertarian types should abhor.  

Yet libertarians typically recognize the need for IP law, while recognizing that reforms are needed.   

 

 

………… parent

Wait

so you had the idea then you went and got the money and the factory and then hired someone who sold you out, and you got beat to market why exactly?  You had already done all the leg work by the time your competitor reached your first step int he process...

If someone else can produce the same good for less cost then why shouldn't they be allowed to?  The thing is you are coming from a position that assumes you own thoughts, and I don't.  Given that anything you think of is building on previous works, as well as the ephemeral nature of though, I think the onus is on you to show why thought = property.

I actually think this in some ways conects back to our views of individual identity, a topic I've meant to write a diary on for a while. 

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

In these kinds of cases,

In these kinds of cases, myself and all my fellow co-workers were required to sign a confidentiality agreement with regard to the technologies and methods of production that we all become familiar with in our work.  The company I work for has chosen a mixed approach to IP.  They file for some patents and in other cases choose simply to keep the method of production and recipe a secret.  In many cases, patents can actually help to accelerate development once a product has been developed.  A monkey-see, monkey-do type scenario.  In other cases, the patent is abused and it prevents the kind of competition that can make a process more efficient and therefore less costly.

And to answer the question about a lack of IP and employee knowledge...  I can only imagine the move toward automating and taking the human factor out of production in much the same way Coca-Cola does in keeping it's recipe a secret.  Their alternative would simply be to pay their employees enough to discourage them from leaving and taking up the effort on their own.  You could argue that would inflate costs, but it might be a wash with less boat-anchor lawyers floating around...

………… parent

Copyright law huh?

I have never given it extensive consideration, but since you are asking for initial input I would venture a thought or two;

It seems to me that copyrights are a necessary part of law.

One who has spent months, years, even considerable portions of their lives to develop precocious, effulgent, and avant-garde works of film, art, or literature are naturally entitled to a proprietary interest.

Other considerations are at stake as well. Let us take a film as an example. Films are a collaborative effort and often financed by means of complex financial arrangements. If copyright protection was not available to them there would be no incentive to produce films.

Copyright also is a deterrent to others altering or censoring works of copyright holders. For instance, if we did not have copyright law in place the books we buy would not be guaranteed to be true to the original.

Also, if works were allowed to be infringed upon it could greatly marginalize its quality, which poses a multitude of other problems in and of itself.

I would have to think the terms of copyright with respect to its duration etc over some more.

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

…………

LvMI's most popular refferal to IP.

I figured I'd cut right to the chase regarding one of the stronger arguments against IP to which the Austrians like to point.  James Watt and his steam engine .  (Not to be confused with Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel...)

That's an oldie.  But a more modern example is the movement of highly successful artists away from their record companies to allow them to pursue their own distribution methods.  Trent Reznor is my favorite example , mainly because I love his work.  And of course there's Radiohead as well.  And in both cases, their fist attempts were failures, even by their own standards.  Trent stayed with it and Radiohead has said they will not.  But it's certainly an interesting way to deal with the sale of IP.

…………

A little off topic

I enjoyed what I heard off of Ghosts.  The Radiohead album wasn't their best work. :-)

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

I felt that way initially...

...but then started to think about the individual who created the work.

I appreciate the Watt article, but where is the reward in advancing a technology if in the end you will not be able to profit from it anymore than the parasitic manufacturers who will immediately knock it off?

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

Workarounds, Doctrine of First Sale

Even if IP rights were all but completely eliminated tomorrow.

People/corporations could still profit off of the first sale of an idea. And tweak marketing campaigns to announce who the "original" creators of a work are to protect future use.

All one would need to do is, have a contract set up for people to view the IP, and have it set up so that there is some sort of option to buy the IP. Treat IP like a tangible good.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

…………

Probably worth adding some history

from wikipedia:

 

The history of patents and patent laws is generally considered to have started in Italy with a Venetian Statute of 1474 which was issued by the Republic of Venice .[1] They issued a decree by which new and inventive devices, once they had been put into practice, had to be communicated to the Republic in order to obtain legal protection against potential infringers. The period of protection was 10 years.[2]

 

Patents, however, existed before the law. The first Italian patent was actually awarded by the Republic of Florence in 1421,[3] and there is evidence suggesting that something like patents was used among some ancient Greek cities.[4] In 500 BC, in the Greek city of Sybaris (located in what is now southern Italy), "encouragement was held out to all who should discover any new refinement in luxury, the profits arising from which were secured to the inventor by patent for the space of a year." [5]

Copyright was invented after the advent of the printing press and subsequent widening of public literacy. As a legal concept, its origins in Britain were from a reaction to printers' monopolies at the beginning of the eighteenth century. In Britain the King of England and Scotland was concerned by the unregulated copying of books and used the royal prerogative to pass the Licensing Act of 1662 which established a register of licensed books and required a copy to be deposited with the Stationers Company , essentially continuing the licensing of material for the benefit of printers that had long been in effect. The Statute of Anne in 1709 was the first real copyright act, and gave the author in the new state of Britain rights for a fixed period, after which the copyright expired. Internationally, the Berne Convention in 1887 set out the scope of copyright protection, and is still in force to this day. Copyright has grown from a legal concept regulating copying rights in the publishing of books and maps to one with a significant effect on nearly every modern industry , covering such items as sound recordings , films , photographs , software , and architectural works .

 

 Notice that Patents and copyrights are a very modern thing. Notice further that patents and copyrights in english law arose merely as a way for royalty to establish power, not because they improved anything.  Copyright in particular seems to have arisen out of a fear of the commoners becoming educated.  It was intended as a way to slow the spread of information so as to keep people unaware, and thus maintain the power of feudal structures.

The Copyright reference actually understates the case when describing what can be copyrighted these days.  Algorithms and observations of the natural world are some of the most egregious examples of things being copyrighted nowadays.

this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/2000patent.PNG is also an important point.  Patent and copyright law is a way in which western society can maintain pre-eminence above the rest of the world (except Japan).

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_patent_law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright_law

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

I will point out

Copyrights and patents weren't started with the best of intentions, but that does not imply that they are irrecovably marred.

And you have made the mistake again: algorithms cannot be copyrighted, but they can be patented as part of a "physical" process (ie. in a computer program).

I wanted to be a neutral observer, but I must leave that role to point out that anyone who knows the first thing about computer science knows that programs are just descriptions of mathematical algorithms.  You're not supposed to be able to patent math, but apparently you can if it's done on a computer.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

You can copyright an algorithm

here's an example of the algorithm used to make GIF images being patented:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Unisys_and_LZW_patent_enforcement

It's not a physical process but the algorithm itself that was patented.  Consider also that naturally ioccuring genomes can be patented, despite their being an expression of nature itself.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

So which was it?

Was the algorithm patented or copyrighted?

I know that LZW was patented.  However, only a particular implementation of an algorithm can be copyrighted.

You can copyright pretty much any work you put in a tangible form.  This is completely seperate from patents.

For instance, if you assumed you could patent stories, you'd get a patent of creating a process of creating an image in a reader's mind of a zombie story.  However, there are many different zombie stories, each having their own quirks.  The story gets the copyright.  The "process" gets the patent.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

Sorry, you're right

it was technically patented, but notice that they then were trying to use that patent to control another use of the algorithm, more like a copyright.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

on copyright

1) copyright is state-created property
2a) Copyright should be for a fixed duration. The variable (i.e. "life +") duration means that it is not easy to learn whether a copyright is still in effect.
2b) Copyright term should be <30 years, as it was in the early days of the USA.
3) I think the minimums should be dropped. Penalties should be based on an estimate of the harm suffered.
4) It is unconstitutional, but who cares what I think? Retroactive extension invalidates the paradigm that they have a limited duration. It also invalidates the idea that the copyright is meant to promote progress (by providing rewards).
 
Final note: since the "Mickey Mouse Protection Act" was passed, I have lost all respect for copyright law. This law represents simple theivery -- the government is stealing from the American public on behalf of their wealthy/connected allies. As such, it is up to individuals to voluntarily support the artists whose work they enjoy, based on their own standards of fair compensation (I use the 30 year rule, and standard prices).

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

…………

patents and the patent office

I think patents are a trickier case.

First, because two people can independently invent something, patents have the potential to be much more of an infringement on liberty than a copyright.

Second, due to the large amount of non-commercial research (public and private), we have progress even in the absence of the commercial researchers. We should not grant 20 year patents for inventions that would have been developed in 5 years anyway. It's hard to deterime "what would have been", but I think we should be more stringent with the granting of patents.

Third, the patent office is completely overwhelmed, resulting in the granting of patents that shouldn't have been granted. While these patents can be challenged in court, that places a substantial cost on the people who would want to make use of these inventions. The patent office regularly grants invalid patents, which are then used by would-be monopolists to discourage competition. The patent office must be adequately funded for the job that it is given.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

…………

As far as the 'Hope' poster is concerned, I think the original

photographer & the AP should be mentioned in the credit.  The artist claims to have not made any money from the poster, so far.  If that's the case I'm OK with no back money for AP or the original photographer but they all get to split any future gross.  They can all work out who gets how much between themselves but I think the artist should get more than 50%.

…………

there is a small chance I

there is a small chance I may run for US Congress in 2010 due to my dissatisfaction with how much of an issue "intellectual property" (mostly copyrights and patents) is in national politics.

Seems like an odd single issue (or even primary motivation) on which to run for U.S. Congress. Is it that important in the overall set of issues that we hope our congressmen will deal with and handle wisely?

 

…………

running for congress

Well, everything else is perfect in America!

Seriously, you may accomplish more by seeking a job with Creative Commons, or by going to law school and hoping to be the next Lawrence Lessig. Anyway, after getting that sort of experience you would probably be a more credible candidate.

Anyway, if this is going to be a big part of your campaign, I think you'd have to connect it to a larger story... perhaps construct a narrative around state-granted privileges and how they contribute to inequality.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

I'm not going to win

I'm thinking of running to bring visibility to an issue.

Going to law school is a lot more expensive and time consuming than running for Congress.  And a job with CC would probably require me to move out of the greatest state in the country.

Anyway, if this is going to be a big part of your campaign, I think you'd have to connect it to a larger story... perhaps construct a narrative around state-granted privileges and how they contribute to inequality.

Nope.  Just visibility.  Read slashdot sometime when they have a copyright/patent-related story on the front page.  A good deal of nerds are very upset with our copyright/patent system as it stands.  They haven't had the chance to vote for someone who makes IP a central issue in their campaign.  I hope to give them that option, but as I've said before, I'll have to get over my discomfort of crowds and speaking to people I don't know.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

single issue nerd vote

A good deal of nerds are very upset with our copyright/patent system as it stands.

I'm a big fan of Slashdot.

So nerds already know about this issue, and they have established media outlets (/., wikipedia, etc) that allow them to spread awareness among nerds. How are you going to sell it to non-nerds?

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

Sure fire plan

How are you going to sell it to non-nerds?

New version of Star Trek? With actresses sometimes even hotter than Jolene Blalock and Linda Park?

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

on political activism...

Once upon a time, I helped out with Lib Party campaigns, and came away from it thinking that I had wasted a lot of time and effort....so I feel obligated to encourage you to consider alternative strategies.

Here are two central issues to consider:

  1. Do you have any idea of how to run an effective public opinion campaign?
  2. Do you have the resources to run an effective public opinion campaign?

If the answer is "no", then I suggest that you learn how to run a campaign, and start gathering your resources. I would do this before deciding on exactly what strategy to persue.

Probably the best place to learn how to run a campaign is from someone else's campaign. If there is a candidate (for any office) who you think is a decent guy, ask him what he thinks about your favorite issues and see if you'd want to lend a hand. Maybe you can even get a chance to talk to him about copyright issues.

Alternatively, you could start working with an established advocacy group. I'm not aware of any grass-roots, offline IP advocacy groups, so you may have to find a different issue... but it will still allow you to gain some experience with public opinion campaigns.

You've also got to find some people who want to work with you on this issue. Once you get a group together, it may be that someone else would be a better front man (i.e. candidate)  than you. Whether you are going to run for office or persue some other strategy, you aren't going to be able to do it alone.

So maybe you would do well to hook up with a local Students for Free Culture group.

Or maybe you could establish a meetup group focused on this issue-- they already have some groups focused on Digital Rights .

Anyway, that's how I would go about it if I were hankering to do some face-to-face activism on this topic.

good luck!

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

I assume your comment was

I assume your comment was addressed to Stinerman, not to me.

………… parent

yes

.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

Indeed it is

It is an important issue to a small but growing segment of the population due to the explosion in digital music/movies/software/etc.

Is it that important in the overall set of issues that we hope our congressmen will deal with and handle wisely?

And that is exactly why I'm thinking of running.  No congressman anywhere thinks this is an important issue, which implies that no one who wishes can vote with this issue in mind.

Right now the conversation is totally dominated by industry interests because this is ostensibly "not important".

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

No offense, but I think most

No offense, but I think most people would look at a guy running for Congress even just to raise awareness on this issue as a bit of a cook who lacks perspective and/or is rather egocentric (feeling that what matters to him is enough to justify running for Congress even knowing that it doesn't matter that much -- relative to other issues related to Congress -- to the voters, and that it <i>still</i> won't be seen, even after hearing him out, as an issue large enough to justify a single-issue run for Congress).

Don't get me wrong. I don't think you're a cook. I'm just saying what I think folks who haven't had much interaction with you would think.

………… parent

I don;t know

that seems to be pretty usual for third party candidates, they run knowing they won;t win to try and get awareness and maybe force the guys who have a shot to take a stand on their issue.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

and how sucessful are they?

I'm not aware of third-party candidates having much influence.

The ones that do have influence either focus on a big, central issue with clear connections to "everything else" (such as Perot with the budget deficit, or the abolitionists), or they focus on broad changes to society (such as the socialists).

I think that Nader falls in that later category, but not even he had much impact as a candidate.

If you want to convince politicians to give attention to a particular secondary issue, you're probably better off forming a PAC or building public awareness independent of an election campaign.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

2 things

Don't get me wrong. I don't think you're a cook. I'm just saying what I think folks who haven't had much interaction with you would think.

1) I am a horrible cook.  The best I can do is make spicy spaghetti.  John is the cook here.

2) This is something I think about every so often.  This weekend I was very excited about the possibility.  Today I'm pretty sure I won't ever run for anything.

We'll see.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

LOL (laughing at myself).

I am a horrible cook. 

LOL (laughing at myself). I just got back to this thread and realized (even before seeing your reply, showing me I was too late to note it on my own) that I should have written "kook", not "cook".

This weekend I was very excited about the possibility.  Today I'm pretty sure I won't ever run for anything.

That would be an awesome opening line to the speech you give following the weekend in which you announce your candidacy.

………… parent

copyright term extension (history)

Nice chart from Wikipedia (I can't figure out how to embed it).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyright_term.svg

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

…………