News Cycle Roundup: Par-Tay!

Good Wednesday morning Swordsmen. Today is tax day, and Americans are filing taxes. Also, there will be tea party marches around the countries protesting Obama's election and implementing campaign promises taxation, bailouts, and other things. We'll see where it goes. On the ledger today: immigrants, tea parties, taxes, lions, dolphins, and charter schools. Otherwise, open thread.

 

Our next weapon against the pirates? Dolphins .

Ezra Klein: The rich pay most income taxes because they have most of the income. See, look at my chart .

Glenn Reynolds: Today is an exciting day!

Today American taxpayers in more than 300 locations in all 50 states will hold rallies -- dubbed "tea parties" -- to protest higher taxes and out-of-control government spending. There is no political party behind these rallies, no grand right-wing conspiracy, not even a 501(c) group like MoveOn.org.

Haha..sure..

Pew: Here's a profile of illegal undocumented unauthorized(?) immigrants in the U.S. I actually kinda like unauthorized as a description. I think it hits a little closer to the status.

SciAm: For you hiker-types, what do you do when you see a mountain lion? Run or Stay Put ?

and a little parochialism--here is what we have to deal with up in Harlem with the ability to implement public charter schools. Very frustrating to see solutions that work so violently attacked.

Comments :

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Life is good....

to keep it that way pay your taxes. ;)

…………

A Dick Armey

 Dick Armey former Republican leader of the House, and famed Texas hard core partisan, who is now the head of Freedom Works, has decided to hijack the Ron Paul movements tea party protests.

 Okay Dick that's all well and good, what with free speech being what it is, but let's not pretend that this is a grass roots movement. You  have co-opted the libertarian message and used Fox News and your lobbying interests at Freedom Works to create a faux media event replete with free advertising on Fox News.

 The only folks that have real standing here as a grass roots movement for the tea protests are the libertarians. If I was a Ron Paul supported I would be mad as a hornet that a Dick Armey has co-opted the message...... which seems to be along the lines of a tea tantrum.

 It is also noteworthy that Dick Armey is a lobbyist for Bristol-Myers, the life insurance industry.

 http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/lobbying-clients-teaparties/

 Armey represents the very business interests who will benefit the most from having less taxes for the rich, while putting more of the burden on the middle class.

 If the tea party goers had any gumption they should protest against the Dick Armey.

 "In addition to working for various domesticoil companies  with a vested interest in opposing change, Armey’s lobbying firm represents Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the UAE, on energy related issues such as maintaining the U.S.-UAE relationship where “U.S companies have played major roles in the development of UAE energy resources, which represent about 10 percent of global oil reserves .”

…………

More on the Pew report, and a bit o' Kinky

(I like that term, too; it's appropriate and much less inflammatory)

The Chronicle has a bit more detail on the study (emphasis added), in case you want more but don't want to peruse the whole study:

The new Pew report offers a demographic snapshot of the nation’s undocumented population, which researchers said tripled in size from 1990 to 2006, before finally stabilizing at roughly 12 million in 2008.

Texas ranked No. 2 in the country in terms of the size of the illegal immigrant population, with about 1.45 million. The state had a higher proportion of illegal immigrants in the workforce — almost 8 percent in Texas compared with 5.4 percent nationally. The proportion of Texas school children with an undocumented parent was also above the national estimate of one in 15.

One of the report’s key findings — that the undocumented population is made up largely of young, working families — bucks the traditional stereotype of illegal immigrants as day laborers and single men standing on street corners, said Jeffrey Passel, a senior demographer for the Pew Hispanic Center.

I think what that means is that any immigration plan must include the impact of families, for schooling, heathcare, etc.  

And, while browsing the Chronicle site, I found this about Kinky.   Seems like he's gonna challenge Kay or Rick in 2010, this time as a Democrat.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

…………

Don't really mind this time.

Even if he loses, runs indy and splits the left/libertarian vote.  KBH seems way too formidable and the TX governorship is the weakest in the nation.  This will hopefully focus the race on the much more imporant Senate seat.

Gregg, Burr, Specter, Sununu, Martinez, maybe Vitter vs Dodd and Reid.  The Ds only need a net gain of one.  I wonder how close the Rs realize they may be from being able to influence legislation at all in the 112th.

………… parent

They had a chance with Noriega

I was astounded to see Cornyn win.  A bit more money might have prevented that one and given that seat to the Dems in 2008.    Bad strategy on the part of the party, IMHO.   Taking that seat would have created some significant momentum.

Rumor has it that the GOP pressure is on Kay NOT to run for the governor's spot, since they cannot risk losing hers to a Democratic candidate.   So if she runs and fails, she can kiss her political career goodbye. 

But Kinky is just a hoot.   Hell, if it were him or Kay, he'd get my vote :-)

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

………… parent

Keith Olbermann

seems unaware of the irony of doing WH dog segments that complain about excessive media attention given to the WH dog.

Ooh, I just criticized a liberal.  That must make me fair and blanced!

…………

Take your mother

 off social security and medicare, and liberate yourself from the burdens of taxes.

 Yank your kids out of public school and liberate yourself from the burdens of taxes.

 Fill in your own pot holes and liberate yourself from taxes.

  The teabaggers and comming. The teabaggers are coming.

 If you have stocks sell  them now, because you are support fascist America.

 If you have money in the bank, pull it all out now because the banks are part of fascist America.

 The new neo-Macarthyism has arrived! 

 

You can' threaten the government, call the President a fascist and get on TeeVee.

Only in America will folks be used as pawns by corporations so that big business can pay even less taxes.  

 Grover Norquist, Dick Armey and the NRA must be laughing their asses off, right about now.

 

 

…………

What do you call someone who

What do you call someone who passionately expresses extreme displeasure over some choice that has been made that has some adverse immedite effect on him, without having any real understanding of what the options were and are, and without having any informed, intelligent sense that he would actually be better off if a different choice had been made or were made now?

A.  A baby

B.  Homer Simpson

C.  An attendee of a "Tea Party" today

D.  All of the above

…………

I'll take C.

Babies and Homer are both so innocent.

 The tea parties seem a  lot more like pure unadulterated stupidity.

  

………… parent

Thats what they said about the Sons of Liberty.

Why are you so disrespectful of Americans peacefully assembling and objecting to the constitution being disregrded?


 Where in the Constitution do you find authorization for each of the following?

1. The redistribution of property by force and subterfuge; and the unequal application of tax laws amounting to punitive action against certain groups of American People and providing favored status to other groups
2. A paper money system that is morally and economically equivalent to counterfeiting
3. Willful and purposeful devaluation and destruction of American currency
4. Deploying military to fight undeclared wars
5. Targeting and labeling law-abiding American citizens as domestic terrorists
6. Declarations that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or disloyal to our country
7. Intrusions into the privacy of law-abiding American citizens
8. Perpetual massive indebtedness to foreign countries
9. Infringement upon the rights of the People to keep and bear arms through oppressive regulation and taxation designed for the very purpose of infringement
10. Passing laws and taxes without deliberation and without reading the legislation; said action is tantamount to the American People not having any representation
11. Enacting ex post facto laws and Bills of Attainder
12. Granting Constitutional rights and privileges to illegal aliens and prisoners of war
13. Funding mercenary organizations that engage in voter fraud and paid harassment of law abiding American citizens
14. Maintaining and deploying armies in peace time on United States soil
15. Unprecedented and arbitrary federal power, through the United States Treasury, for government intervention into, control of, and confiscation of, private property, private industry including but not limited to banking, insurance, manufacturing, farming and other sectors of the private economy (current and proposed)
16. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law (proposed)
17. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law (proposed)
18. Acts regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press (proposed)

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Are you auditioning for "E"?

Are you auditioning for "E"?

………… parent

Come again?

I'm not the one posting the 5th grade creative writing assignment. Oh wait, it's not even creative writing, it's multiple choice.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

I choose ...

E.  A Democrat.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

So. Carolina job fair canceled

 due to lack of employment.

 http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D97J2U880.htm

 

 With only two employers, and thousands looking for work, So Carolina canceled it's jobs fair due to lack of employment.

 Thank God Sanford is sticking to his principles and not going for those extra unemployment benefits.

 Hopefully Sanford will figure out a way to create jobs, or perhaps export the unemployed out of his state.

…………

Is that a buzzer I hear in the background?

Time to do another load. Good thing laundry doesn't require much reasoning power.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Go yank your tea bags

Nice misdirection on ignoring the lack of employment. Your insults will surely create jobs.

 

 Btw, thanks for lowering the discourse here at SC.

Frankly I think you owe me, personally  an apology. I certainly won't expect one.

I will note that the participation has fallen off since your ugly comments have persisted.

If you want this to turn into a right wing echo chamber, keep up the good work. I can't tolerate your bs much longer, which I am sure is your point.

Also, I forgot to mention. F*ck You, also with liberty, also and a new wardrobe cheaply washed.

Just to be clear. Let me repeat myself...... F**k You! And let me also add, a**h*le to that.

F**k You A**H*le.

………… parent

Calm down, ML.

Just ignore him and his sexist remarks.  We all see them for what they are.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Oh ML, you give me too much credit.

You have been vandalizing this site with your incomprehensible non-sequiturs for far too long.

You have marginalized and reduced yourself to 50% local comic relief, and 50% in perpetual conflict with it's members regarding your inability to think clearly, or deal with the pity driven responses to your intellectual excrement.

I m not trying to be cruel, think of it as tough love, I just refuse to get on the little bus with you and your literary lunacy.

As I have said to you, should you decide to drop the nonsense, and present, and responsibly defend a logical argument by staying on topic and pursuing it to it's fruition, I'm here.

Until then.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

If your aim....

.... is to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're an insufferable ass, then mission accomplished.

I'm still waiting for your exposition on estrogen and genitalia, and their relevance to political discourse.  I also find this 'go do some laundry' line of attack to be fascinating.  Tell us more, won't you?

 

 

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

Why does it not surprise me

that ML has a puppethead as her ambulance chaser.

My statements were in plain english, any ordinary person can understand them, like them or not, so please go play your obtuse game elsewhere.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Why don't you try to lay off the sexist crap ...

then we can all try to get along.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Why don't you try and lay off the Nazi crap.

Suggesting someone go fold laundry is sexist? Oh GR?

You surprise me.

Especially since you just moments ago compared Obama to Hitler?

You saying Obama hates Jews too?

Sounds stupid huh?

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Weak.

So let's get this straight -- you think an effective line of attack on a female poster with whom you disagree involves making references to the effects of estrogen on her cognitive ability, her lack of external genitalia (presumably for purposes of comparison and/or display), and being more mentally suited to doing housework than discussing politics with other people.... but you don't think that's sexist at all?

That's really weak, man.  Didn't get enough hugs as a kid?

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

Not to jump in the middle of all this righteousness

But if you re-read the offending comment, I think all he said was she didn't have the balls to respond to his argument.   I didn't read the genitalia reference as sexist, merely as rather awkward phrasing to get around the use of the word I just used.   

The laundry one, well, I dunno.  But there's something in the idea that if one dishes it out, one should be able to take it, don't you think?   Missliberties is certainly no paragon of clarity nor civility herself. 

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

………… parent

Thanks PF

 Just to be clear and civil if you will excuse me I have to go powder my sweaty balls and go hang out my laundry.

 Appreciate your 'nuetrality' on clearing up the issue of my estrogen impairment. Thx.

 

 

 

………… parent

PF as usual comes with honest and candid assesment.

I appreciate the willingness to acknowledge what the reference clearly was, something some others who chose to jump in and comment were unable to be.

To ML, or those who found it inappropriate I apologize for the comment, it obviously struck some of you the wrong way, whether that is a contrived protest, or not, I am unsure, but should it legitimately be the latter, I do apologize.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Just for the record

 I take issue with PF's comment, essentially blaming me for your really rude (very sexist) comments.

 Yeah it took me this long to calm down enough to accept your apology.

………… parent

Meh

n/t

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Just a hint

If you made a bit more of an effort to express your thoughts clearly and to respond more directly to comments, chatting with you would not be so frustrating.  I know you're not half as stupid as you like to act sometimes.

I know you're one pissed off liberal. And that republicans/libertarians/free markets/corporations/etc are the source of all evil in your worldview.  I think we all get that.  It's really not necessary to remind us all of that in every comment you make.   Trying to understand and respond to what people are actually saying is the very essence of conversation.

Centinel was rude and has apologized.  I don't particularly care for his approach.  But  I have yet to see you apologize for any rudeness you've shown others on this site.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

………… parent

Just a hint

 I don't particularly appreciate 'the lecture' especially in light of the nature of centinel's comments and your eagerness to leap to his defense,  as an opportunity for you to point out (yet again) that you don't like my style.

 Sometimes half stupid people can spark interesting conversations. 

 

 

 

………… parent

Ha! You should be taking hints not giving them to others!

nt.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Even if GR really thought

Obama is similar to Hitler or Nazi's, well, Obama doesn't post here.  GR wasn't personally insulting another poster.  We know his MO and he was even self-conscious enough to make a post asking for honest criticism.

Whatever your intent with this bizarre laundry stuff, it's not funny or appropriate.  And it came out of nowhere, it's not like ML had just insulted you.  If you dislike her, or me, or thepuppethead that much, please feel free to ignore our posts.  If you're a Sandford fan, well, defend him.

By the way, you were compared to B Rational because you both have a tendency to belittle others posts by condescention or invocation of logical fallacies you fail to understand or interpret.  Both of you rarely address the substance of an argument and believe your claims of superiority to be self-evident.  Both of you manage the impressive feat of annoying both sides of the ideological divide.

But I'm not being fair to B Rational; I don't think he would have said what you just did.

………… parent

Please show me examples of when I've done this?

invocation of logical fallacies you fail to understand or interpret.

Defend ML if you like, I have only made legitimate claims about the content she posts. Why do you not defend the content, because you can not, that's why. So instead you make some disparaging comment about my ability to understand and interpet faulty logic? Come on?

As far as my style, it is what it is. I have had an exchange with Skymutt, and it ended as it should, by the one who was wrong in the instance, me, conceding, and a call to engage again another day.

Other than ML and during my exchange with Skymutt, I have not been condescending to anyone. And what is the difference, Skymutt continued in an on topic fashion and made his case, I have yet to see ML do that with me or anyone else, ever. Go back over her history, it's like a joke, member after member pleading with her to be consistent, stay on track, be honest and see her posts through with integrity. So I am just the latest it would seem who finds ML's posts an issue.

Anyway, I have told her, I would be happy to prove my case in a civil way through dialogue, and have encouraged her to try and get to a point where that could happen.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Well

Other than those two I have not been condescending to anyone,

Remember when you told me I "needed to get out more"?  Because I remarked that saying "only a left-wing liberal would believe in bigger government etc." was a platitude.  That's condescension.  Your "only a liberal" phrasing is also a kind of reverse No True Scotsman fallacy.

Incidentally, grats for conceding to skymutt, but it took you way too long. You waited until he provided a second source for who paid for the flight when the burden should have been on you from the beginning to show Obama had done something wrong.  

As for this:

Anyway, I have told her, I would be happy to prove my case in a civil way through dialogue, and have encouraged her to try and get to a point where that could happen.

great, please do.  That's what we're here for.  Pick any post of hers or mine and let's thrash it out, as long as you can leave out the generic put-downs. 

………… parent

All right.

Well, thanks for the input, I will keep it in mind.

My goal here is certainly not to be a manufacturer of animosity.

However;

I do think if we are going to hold some members to some standards, we should also hold others to some as well, hint hint, maybe if my tactics are to forward, we could develop some Carol Burnett tug on the ear form of signal to let her know?

Just a thought, because believe it or not, as abrasive as I my came off, I was only trying ultimately, to call her on it, in hopes she would knock it off, just like everyone else has I suppose.

The problem is, IMO, if she adopts a rational, responsible literary style, and attempts to defend her wild stories and radical allegations, they quickly would disappear, be debunked, and proven for what they are, fanatical imaginings, so she has no choice but to keep the disconnects and nonsense in place, or change her views, which she has been thus far unable to do.

Ah, oh well, moving on.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

you were compared to B

you were compared to B Rational because you both have a tendency to belittle others posts by condescention or invocation of logical fallacies you fail to understand or interpret.  Both of you rarely address the substance of an argument and believe your claims of superiority to be self-evident.  Both of you manage the impressive feat of annoying both sides of the ideological divide.

hoo boy. Hate to break it to you, but your saying that about me doesn't make it true. In fact, it's false, and ironic, since your argument is predicated on the premise that I fail to understand the very things that you are actually the one not understanding. Classic Greek irony, if memory serves.

I am more inclined than the vast majority of political bloggers to discuss the substance of an issue and related positions and arguments and to have a real discussion debate in which arguments are laid out, considered, challenged rationally, etc.

I assure you that my arguments are very, very rarely illogical, and when I call someone else's argument illogical, consider it a very good bet that it is, even if your own cognitive limitations preclude your reaching that conclusion independently.

And no, I don't annoy "both sides of the ideological divide". I annoy hyperpartisans on both sides of the ideological divide. I annoy people who are full of bluster, absurd hyperbole, parrotted talking points and other crap who avoid like the plague any serious, logical, thoughtful, sensible, rational, mutually responsive discussion/debate.

Oh, and I'm not sure what you think is GR's M.O. is what it really is, but I won't elaborate since I don't wish to get into it again.

Other then allllllll that, very insightful, accurate observation

………… parent

I could have written that reply

pretty much for word.  Feel free to add "predictable" to the list of disparaging remarks I've made about your posting.

I am more inclined than the vast majority of political bloggers to discuss the substance of an issue and related positions and arguments and to have a real discussion debate in which arguments are laid out, considered, challenged rationally, etc.

OK, go for it.  I'm always one for self-improvement.  Show me your command of logic and rationnality.  Dissect a quote of mine from this thread or elsewhere that isn't meta stuff.  I'd do the same, only I can't remember reading any.

Double points if you can do it without using the word hyperpartisan.

………… parent

Incorrect presumption on your

Incorrect presumption on your part. No, I don't consider it worth my while to go out of my way to demonstrate some ability of mine simply because you want a demonstration of it, let alone something of which you would need no demonstation if you were capable of perceiving it in the first place, and which, therefore, you would not be likely to perceive correctly even if it were demonstrated to you now.

Shorter version: Apparently you wouldn't know substantive, relevant, logical argumentation if it bit you on the ass, and I don't intend to waste time trying to teach a pig to sing, so to speak.

And if you want to see samples of my diaries and comments on SC, there's no shortage of them and they are easily and quickly accessible, unless the process is too complex for you (if it is, ask for help. I think even some of the "smarter" kids in the Special Ed wing of SC can guide you correctly on that one)

………… parent

Oink oink ooooiiiink

Apparently I wouldn't know (...) if it bit me in the ass?  Gaah, even your insults are cowardly.

I know how to look up comments, silly.  I mean ones where you don't swoop in and call people irrational and irrelevant.  Which do you think works better for elevating the discourse: calling Centinel a hyperpartisan talkingpointer for cheerleading Gingrich, or asking him by what way he deserved more credit than Clinton for the balanced budgets?

Meh, why do I bother.  I thought because the substance of my exchanges with GoRight and Centinal has improved markedly, it could be the same with you.  I forgot that your comments have no substance.  There's nowhere to go.

………… parent

I second that one Corph.

;-) In the spirit of bi-partisanship of course.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

As I explained earlier, I do

As I explained earlier, I do have a way of bringing mindless hyperpartisans together! swordscrossed.org/diary/20090415/news-cycle-roundup-par-tay#comment-109058

………… parent

Correction.

I annoy hyperpartisans on both sides of the ideological divide. I annoy people who are full of bluster, absurd hyperbole, parrotted talking points and other crap who avoid like the plague any serious, logical, thoughtful, sensible, rational, mutually responsive discussion/debate.

I think you must be confusing annoy for amuse.  You don't annoy me, you amuse me in the same way that a court jester or the village idiot amuses people.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Just how dumb do you think

Just how dumb do you think people here are? I think it's unlikely that even you are in that much denial, so you must think people here are completely naive. Yes, you get annoyed when I call you on your bullsh*t. That doesn't make you a bad person. It's just human. But insisting that it doesn't annoy you is childish -- childish like, oh, saying in effect that you weren't really trying after you lose a game...oh, wait, that's your M.O. (pretending, after the fact, that you weren't seriously making your initial assertion when even you realize it's indefensible, and pretending, after the fact, that you were just imitating and mocking others when you engage in commenting behavior that is unbecoming and generally lame, and pretending that it was only the other guy who was continuing an exchange out of compulsiveness, but not you, too, etc.). Never mind. I can't break out precisely which portion is denial and which is just a pathetic struggle to save face via fairly transparently disingenuous claims (albeit fooling some), but it seems to be a good chunk of both.

………… parent

To appreciate GoRight

 you must come to appreciate the purity of the strawman argument. It is his area of expertise.

He is a fine example of how the sophistic argument can be twisted to prove almost any point. 

You must admit that  is amusing to watch the contortions of logic he goes through to prove that spite is his loyal companion on his journey for salvation as opposed to any principle.

 He's almost adorable in his single minded focus which is poking as many sticks in democrats eyes as is humanly possible.

 

………… parent

As I said, he is fooling some

As I said, he is fooling some people. Yeah, sometimes he may actually be using the tactics he claims, but much more often than some here realize, he just goes with that "just kiddin'" kind of claim when he finds himself unable to defend some assertion or gets called on some tactic or behavior to which he doesn't want to admit. The guy is a joke, but not intentionally. He's just a dumb*ss with a loud mouth and little emotional maturity and security.

………… parent

He is fooling no one

 but himself. 

 He isn't a dumbass, no.

He is always polite.

 He just has a point of view which he defends to the point of being somewhat ludicrous, yet it is somewhat adorable.

 His integrity lies in his loyalty to his bias.

………… parent

BR and ML sittin' in a tree ...

:)

Gee BR, you may have just found the lead actor for that sitcom with ML you keep talking about.  You should audition yourself!

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Hey stop it!

 You and BR are both excellent when it comes to employing logic to persuade.

 

 I am just trying to convince BR what a great guy you are and that he should stop insulting you!

………… parent

hoo boy. Thanks for reminding

hoo boy. Thanks for reminding me that I should stick to my "Ignore ML" policy. You think GR is "excellent when it comes to employing logic"?? Christ-o-Rama!

Setting "Ignore" switch back to "ON" now.

………… parent

;-) Who needs Match.com, here's to the happy couple!

Cheers!

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Another correction.

saying in effect that you weren't really trying after you lose a game

I have never claimed to not be trying.  In fact I have claimed exactly the opposite.  When I throw out a firecracker topic I defend it in earnest for as long as I can maintain a plausible position, ymmv on what constitutes "plausible".  As I said earlier, if you manage to pin me down on one of these threads to the point where even I agree I cannot maintain the facade I openly fess up.  At that point I am openly admitting that my opponent has won *that* particular argument. *

The point in doing so is to illustrate how easy it is to plausibly defend a ludicrous position as well as to point out that I think the Democrats do this kind of thing all the time.  And when they do they manage to fool people just like you claim I am fooling people now.

------------------------------------------------

* You are just annoyed because when I fess up you feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you and that somehow you haven't "won" the battle of wits in that case.  I am admitting, and have previously admitted, that when I fess up I agree that you have won the battle of "wits".  But this persistent lack of recognition of the fact undermines any gains you might have previously made in the recognition of your "wits" department.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Geez Louise. I read only the

Geez Louise. I read only the first couple of sentences of your comment. First, it's amazing that someone can so consistently demonstrate gross misunderstandings and/or disingenuousness while trying to demonstrate the opposite . Second, do you actually think I'm going to waste even more time in another long, tedious exchange demonstrating another few dozen times that you are utterly incapable of rational argumentation and that you have a total bullsh*t modus operandi?

I direct anyone interested to swordscrossed.org/diary/20090405/lets-pile-goright-diary#comment-108230

………… parent

How amusing! :)

Dance for me, jester, dance!

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

There you go again. You just

There you go again. You just can't help it.

………… parent

+4

.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Again we find that Obama is worse than Bush.

Obama said he was going to halt the abuse of the Guantanamo inmates, but as we find out today he treats them worse than Bush did:

Al Jazeera: Guantánamo captive called us to protest guards' treatment

A Guantánamo detainee used his prison camp telephone privileges to ring up a reporter with the Middle Eastern news network al Jazeera and complain that he had been abused by prison camp guards, the U.S. military and network said Tuesday.

...

But Gharani told al Jazeera, according to a posting on the website Tuesday, that he had been beaten and tear-gassed in a prison camp cell, an apparent reference to his earlier captivity at Guantánamo in a prison building where detainees are held in steel and concrete cells.

...

''This treatment started about 20 days before Obama came into power, and since then I've been subjected to it almost every day,'' he was quoted as saying. "Since Obama took charge he has not shown us that anything will change.''

I want to put together a list of all the ways in which Obama is either just like Bush, or even worse.  Let me know where you think Obama fits this description, and if you have any references to back it up please include them.  Thanks!

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

…………

Obama is worse than Bush on wiretapping.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

I voted for him...

... and I'm pissed off about this.  Worse than Bush?  Dunno.  Different than Bush?  Not so much as you'd see any real daylight between them.  If that doesn't change I'm going to stay pretty steamed at the President.  I have a feeling all of this is going to have to wind its slow way through the courts, unless Congress acts.

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

Obama is increasing the debt faster than Bush.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Well yeah...

... that kind of happens with a broken banking system, a credit freeze, and a big fat recession.  Even Greenspan would tell you to spend like crazy to avert depression and limit the recession's severity .... though why you'd listen to Greenspan at this point I dunno.

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

Maybe ...

 maybe not.  But the point still remains.  Obama is racking up debt even faster than Bush was when the Democrats were complaining about it.  Now they're not.  That says a lot.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Obama is worse than Bush on torture.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Pretty good trick...

..... for Obama to give those orders 20 days before he took office!

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

True ...

But notice what he hasn't done ... he hasn't put an end ot it after he took office.  So my point remains, he is at best just like Bush, and at worst worse than Bush.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Who knows man....

... they might even be twins!

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

More evidence that Obama is worse on torture than Bush.

New abuse claims at Guantanamo

More claims of mistreatment of detainees at the US prison facility in Guantanamo Bay have emerged after Al Jazeera obtained a letter from an inmate saying he had been abused since the Obama administration came to power.

Adnan Farhan Abdul Latif, a Yemeni national held since 2001, said in a letter to his lawyer dated April that "oppression has increased, torture has increased and insults have increased".

"I have seen death so many times," he wrote. "Everything is over, life is going to hell in my situation. America, what has happened to you?"

The letter emerged on Thursday, two days after another inmate, Mohammad al-Qurani, told Al Jazeera in a phone call that he had been mistreated since Barack Obama, the US president, was elected last November.

David Remes, one of Abdul Latif's lawyers, said he had seen evidence of abuse on his client during meetings at the Guantanamo Bay facility in Cuba.

"We have met with our clients, we know the men and the experiences are uniform and universal," he said.

"I've seen the marks on these men, I've taken inventories that show the scars, that show the open wounds, that show the rashes.

"Adnan Latif ... has a badly dislocated shoulder blade. I've seen the evidence of physical torture and I've also heard about the evidence of psychological torture."

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Obama is more like Hitler than Bush.

He is forming his own version of the Obama Youth Brown Shirts:

Per the SFExaminer .

Per the video at LRC Blog .

 

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Haha

You're in fine bomb-throwing form tonight.

Thing is, some of us aren't over our justified,  entirely rational Bush hatred.  Gitmo only exists because Bush ordered it.  Any forced deficit spending Obama is forced into is all Bush's fault because Bush was an incompetent liar during both his terms.

I chuckle when some of my fellow lefties taunt Repubs to get over last November's election.  I'm still not over 2004.  In a sense, there's not all that much Obama can do even if he were the wunderkind I don't think is.  The county's finances, reputation, infrastructure, public services and responsibility culture have more or less gone to hell under Bush.  Bush and co. liked to belittle taking responsibility by tut-tutting about the "blame game", because they know that, ultimately, they're to blame.  It's hard to imagine how they could have fucked up things further.

So dish out all your silly Obama jabs.  They sure as hell won't make me see how I was too mean to Bush.

………… parent

Any forced deficit spending

Any forced deficit spending Obama is forced into is all Bush's fault because Bush was an incompetent liar during both his terms.

I thought Obama was about hope and change. You mean to me tell that Bush's policy of reckless defecit spending is now irreversible and there's no hope for change?

………… parent

That's how Obama campaigned.

You picked the wrong guy to defend him.  The hope and change stuff got on my nerves; I only accepted him blabbing about it because I understood its usefulness as a campaign tactic to the marginally politically aware (because that's where most of the persuadable votes are).

I got slammed on mydd for saying this: in many ways it's too late.  Everybody, including myself, should have paid attention sooner and made damn sure Boring Earthtones or Aloof Flipflopper  got elected-. Obama will never be as good a president as Bush was a bad one; it will be decades before we even get close to the prosperity levels enjoyed in 2000.

How's this as a slogan:  The prospect of marginal improvements has come to America!  We have seen the future, and we are pretty screwed!   Let the creed echo throughout the farms and factories of this great land: stop voting like fucking morons!

………… parent

Fair enough, though I think

Fair enough, though I think doubling Bush's prodigal spending is not going to get us out of the hole he dug. Obama's spending may be targeted in better directions, but it seems to me its mostly targeted towards bigger government, there's plenty of countries to show that bigger government doesn't solve economic woes. And even if bigger govenment would be helpful in and of itself, you eventually have to ask whether we can really afford more debt. The way I figure it our national debt is something like $60,000 per familly and Obama's has plans to increase it by $10,000 per year. Eventually, we may have to accept hard times, so that we don't  have even worse times in the future.

………… parent

I think that's a good point....

.... but the choice maybe wasn't between good times now and hard times later..... I think without this spending (at least in the short term - 2-3 years) we'd be talking about hard times now (with the spending) or an economic meltdown leading to full blown depression, which would've make today's hard times look like 'the good old days'.  The question for me is whether the spending beast can be brought back under control once the crisis has passed..... and that's a really good question.  I have no answer for that.

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

………… parent

I didn't mean to imply the

I didn't mean to imply the money was to help us have good times. You're right that its an attempt to avoid a depression. I still say we may be avoiding a depression to have a much worse depression in the coming years. I am no economic expert, its hard for me to see how we can sustain a national debt of something like S20,000 per individual and increase at $3,000 a year and not go bankrupt.

………… parent

The important thing

 is to get the economy growing again. That is not going to happen if people don't have jobs.

 The only way to stimulate job growth right now is with govt spending or to create demand so people have money to spend.

  The financial havoc wreaked on this country by the wall street banks is of a depth and breadth that very few people grasp. 

  

………… parent

"Big Government"

is a bit of an oversimplification.  Obama's increased federal spending, sure.  But I can't think of any massive new Government programs with long-term liabilities comparable to, say, NCLB or Medicare part D.  The baby-boomerl Medicare time bomb was not of his making.

If, as we all hope, GDP gets going again, I don't see why the % of public expenditures to the overall economy should not plateau or even decrease under Obama.  Also, if taxpayers end up paying more for green energy subsidies and the consumer ends up giving less to Exxon, I'm okay with that.

Though I do thing he's still spending too much on national defense.

………… parent

 I don't know what all the

 I don't know what all the money went to ( does anybody?) I do however, generally think that government spending should be limited to protecting people, making sure they don't starve, freeze, die of a treatable health problem, and have an opportunity for education, and all of that only if they've done all they can do work for these things. Anything left over from that should be left to individuals, and I think individuals will do a much better job of distributing the money then the government. Obama apparently thinks the government can do a better job of distributing the 700 Billion dollars though.

………… parent

Right now, he does.

Individuals are rationally cutting back on spending during this downturn, but that behavior left to itself in a macro sense only makes matters worse.

It's pretty standard Keynsian theory.  I don't think there's any reason to believe he would keep up this level of spending once GDP gets moving again.  Indeed, it would only overheat the economy and cause inflation.

As for:

limited to protecting people, making sure they don't starve, freeze, die of a treatable health problem, and have an opportunity for education, and all of that only if they've done all they can do work for these things.

That sounds eminently reasonable, but I think the past 15 have demonstrated we need a bit more than that.  Unless by "protecting people" you include the FDIC, meat inspectors, antitrust laws and a competent and responsive SEC.    An unfortunate consequence of the increased prosperity and complexity of modern society is that Tragedies of the Commons situations happen much more often.

 

………… parent

Individuals are rationally

Individuals are rationally cutting back on spending during this downturn, but that behavior left to itself in a macro sense only makes matters worse.

It's pretty standard Keynsian theory.  I don't think there's any reason to believe he would keep up this level of spending once GDP gets moving again.  Indeed, it would only overheat the economy and cause inflation.

That's one good reason for Bush-like spending. However, I think the fact that money in the hands of individuals, will be invested in a way that's much more targeted to what people need than money that comes out of layers of bereaucracy will be, likely outweighs the benefit of the government spending more. Also, there was a recession for much of Bush's presidency also, so the arguement could be made that he was simply trying to spend us out of the recession like Obama is. Now you can argue that Bush ran up the deficit on the wrong things ( although it remains to be seen whether's Obama's spending will be anymore effective) but's  thats not the arguements the liberals made, liberals complain about Bush's deficit spending on the basis that it was a huge deficit - and that's clearly hypocritical.

………… parent

You were asking upthread where the money went.

Did you see this ?

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Not "much of" his presidency,

two quarters.  And his tax cuts we're an ideological persuation (or an electoral imperative) looking for a justification.  If they were a recession fighting measure, why did he a) push for them in both 2001 and 2003, when the economic picture was substantially different, and b) not rescind them as soon as the recession was over?

Bush kept wasting money even as the economy was recovering; we got very little out of the trillion that we've sunk into Iraq.  Which the WH kept off the books in order to make his numbers look better, more discredit to them.  As someone who seems to have a libertarian bent, I can imagine what you think of medicare and NCLB.  We on the left criticize Bush for them because the former ended up as a messy big pharma giveway and the latter as an underfunded, ineffective federal mandate.  Remember his "ownership society" events back in 2004?  "I know that a 3% down payment doesn't seem like much, but you should feel the sense of pride I saw in so-and-so when she talked about finally owning her own home".  Hello, housing bubble.  Gaah, I'm getting worked up just thinking about it.

I know Bush left office with around 30% approval.  I know conservatives eventually roundly criticized him, even though they had been fair-weather friends (kudos to GR for sticking with him I guess).  He won't fair well in history books.  But he still hasn't gotten enough of the blame.  Because he was incompetent, too many have concluded that government is incompetent.  Because Bush ran up unnecessary deficits, people fail to see the need for necessary ones.

but's  thats not the arguements the liberals made, liberals complain about Bush's deficit spending on the basis that it was a huge deficit

Some problems with this:

- Liberals didn't get together and come up with one unified argument.  Krugman and prominant Kossacks had a lot of diverging views on deficits;

- Balancing the budget had traditionally been seen as a right-leaning priority, and therefore if there was any hypocrisy in running up the deficit it was Bush's, not Obama's;

- If Bush hadn't screwed the financial pooch so royally, there may not have been any need for deficit spending at all;

- The last Democratic president produced the first surpluses in fourty years, and the current one hasn't even had a hundred days in office.  You're not applying the same standards to both;

- Pointing out hyporisy, even when done accurately, does not help to determine which course is the right one.

Short version: It IS all Bush's fault, we're not hypocrits, and even if we were, we're still right.

………… parent

- Liberals didn't get

- Liberals didn't get together and come up with one unified argument.  Krugman and prominant Kossacks had a lot of diverging views on deficits;

That's a very good point,  I should have said some liberals - guess I've been in the hyper-partisan blogosphere too long. However, my point still stand for those who criticize Bush simply for running up deficits.

Balancing the budget had traditionally been seen as a right-leaning priority,

One would have thought that would have stopped at least after Reagan.

The last Democratic president produced the first surpluses in fourty years, and the current one hasn't even had a hundred days in office.  You're not applying the same standards to both;

Not sure what you're getting at here. From what little I know about Clinton's economic policy ( I'll confess, I was only twelve when he left office) he did great. Of course I probably wouldn't be impressed with what he would have done had he been able to work with a Democratic Congress. However, what he did in balancing the budget, reforming welfare, and keeping an apropiate safety net in tact seemed about right to me. From the standpoint of accumulating national debt Obama's shaping up to be more like our last three presidents that Clinton. As for as his not reaching the 100 day mark he's not talking about slowing down, he's talking about keeping this 1 trillion dollar deficit up for ten years.

Short version: It IS all Bush's fault, we're not hypocrits, and even if we were, we're still right.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous, and I think you're intelligent enough to know it is. There's no way for the president to be solely responsible for the American economy. I doubt its possible for one man to be responsible for his entire administration. Contrary to popular belief the president is no god.

………… parent

OK, I oversimplified.

The problem with economics is that you can't isolate a variable (such as tax rates) and measure their impact on the economy.  You can only make iffy correlations under ever-evolving conditions.

Bush was not responsible for the tech bubble bursting, nor does Clinton deserve much credit for the original tech boom.  But Clinton passed the Deficit Reduction Act with a Democratic congress, faced down and beat Gingrich over deep cuts in Medicare, and didn't try to buy political favor by blowing the resulting surplus on tax cuts.  Plenty of solid accomplishment there.  You know what I think about Bush's record.

The president has his hands on the leavers of fiscal and monetary policy, especially with a rollover congress such as we had from 2001-2009 (we'll see about the 111th).  The president appoints the heads of all the executive departments.  The president may not be able to jawbone Saudis into lower oil prices, but he can influence demand for oil through the fed rate, public transit investments, alternative energy subsidies, highway bills, airfare taxes, and a host of other policies and legislative priorities.  He may not be able to force people to work harder or smarter, but his appointees can allocate IRS resources to going after poorer or richer tax cheats (guess what 43 did).

Oh, and he can also give away $1.6 trillion in poorly targeted tax cuts.  Which can be blamed directly for unecessary deficits and (arguably) indirectly for slowish job recovery.

The fact that a president doesn't do it all himself doesn't mean his style of leadership isn't the single most important influence on the economy.

………… parent

You mean the '93 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act?

Clinton passed the Deficit Reduction Act with a Democratic congress,

And, you're bragging about that?

It saddled American business with a 35% tax burden. Yeah!

It created a 39.6% individual tax rate. Yeah!

It removed a cap on medicare tax. Yeah!

Gas tax was raised by 4.3%. Yeah!

Even the taxable portion of Social Security benefits were raised. Oh ya baby!

Congrats to the Slick one and the last flicker of a D congress until they got back in control and started spending like drunken AIG managers! Can you imagine the insane taxes we will be paying in the future to pay for Obama and Pelosi and Reid's tyrrany.

faced down and beat Gingrich over deep cuts in Medicare,

Shortly after that in 1994 Gingrich and the new Republican congress lived up to their contract with America and balanced the budget etc etc etc.

and didn't try to buy political favor by blowing the resulting surplus on tax cuts.

Of course not he had to raise them to get his agenda done, which looks comical now in light of what Obama is up to!

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

All those tax increases

improved the fiscal picture.  And lo and behold, the economy didn't tank.

Shortly after that in 1994 Gingrich and the new Republican congress lived up to their contract with America and balanced the budget etc etc etc.

Your timeline is wrong: I was referring to the shutdown of 1995, after Gingrich took over.  My point was that Clinton kept the medicare cuts out of the budget, and still managed to balance it from '98-00.  The few undisputed things about the Clinton era:

- The gloom and doom Republicans predicted would follow the DRA did not pan out.

- The public didn't want the medicare cuts.

- Clinton was a better politician than Gingrich.

………… parent

Anything that happened after 1995 was because of, not

in spite of Newt. The balanced budget was a result of the R's contrct with America, it was it's feature component.

But I'll leave you with your imaginary bone.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Geez Louise, man. Do you

Geez Louise, man. Do you subscribe to Hyperpartisan Talking Points Daily or something? Corph and John Mark are having a (refreshingly) good exchange, both making an effor to listen and respond thoughtfully and sensibly. I hope they don't get sidetracked by your interjection of oversimplified, hyperbolic, ditto-head talking points (nor by my commentary on your comment). I just wanted to point out the contrast.

………… parent

Get over yourself, you're not fooling anyone here dude.

My last comment was short, but prior to that I addresed Corph's points in the same manner they were presented.

Thanks for your appraisal though, I won't need anymore thank you.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Length of comment has little

Length of comment has little to do with it. Your previous comment was just more of the same, just broken out into smaller pieces. You may as well just provide links to the transcripts of Limbaugh's program or whatever that contain the talking points you mindlessly parrot. Or just hang out on RedState where you can just keep repeating them back and forth among yourselves so many times that it becomes inconceivable to you that they could be anything less than completely accurate and perfectly explanatory of all related happenings.

But go ahead and reply and I'll let you have the last word, because (1) I don't want to further clutter up the sub-thread (good) discussion between corph and John Mark, and (2) not much benefit in continuing anyway. So take your shot and we'll leave it at that.

………… parent

Look, you don't know me

Corph made some partisan claims, and I pointed out some opposing views.

Is it ok to be partisan on liberal views, but you're a Bushy or Dittohead if you support opposing views?

Anyway, I had chatted with Corph on and off throughout the day, if you don't like it, or it is not to your standards, simply butt out of it, your need to give your opinion of all that happens when you're present is humorous, but annoying.

But I'm sure you know that.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Can you point to

a Republican initiative (that passed) post-1994 that can be linked with the surpluses of the last 3 Clinton years?  I'm not being snarky; I wasn't following politics closely then and I mostly remember Clinton winning the budget standoff.

Clinton and the Rs teamed up for welfare reform, but I don't remember that having a big impact on the budget either way.

………… parent

As to the tax raises themselves

well yeah, I'm generally in favor of raising taxes on high-income earners, because those people never seem to realize to what extent public expenditures contribute to their high income in the first place.  Think of how Bill Gates benefits from copyright enforcement compared to an Applebees waitress.

The payroll increases were less cut and dried, but raising the income cap was a flat-tax type increase in a regressive tax.  It was probably the most politically expediant thing to do.

………… parent

Great slogan

  "The prospect of marginal improvements has come to America!  We have seen the future, and we are pretty screwed!   Let the creed echo throughout the farms and factories of this great land: stop voting like fucking morons!"

  I agree it will be decades before we recover from the debacle the Bush Republicans have left us, though I have more faith and trust in Obama than you do.

 The reality that while Bush was busy with bullets in Baghdad, the Chinese were busy with breif cases, doing business deals all over the world, essentially beating America at it's old game of using loans as a weapon/bargaining chip for dominance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/world/16chinaloan.html?hp

 

………… parent

Meh, gets the kids away from their video games...

...and out into the fresh air, planting flowers and trees and helping widows carry their groceries home from the store.  Under Bush, the kids just sat at home and played video games and ate Cheetos.  Couldn't pry em off the couch with a crowbar under Bush :-)

Better than Bush.

………… parent

When did the Commander in

When did the Commander in Chief become Parent in Chief. No wonder the Dems hated Bush, they think the president is a god, responsible for all that happens in the world.

………… parent

You missed the snark...

Skymutt likes to reply to GoRight in tone.

………… parent

Heh, as did you ...

I think JM was doing to skymutt what he did to me.  :)  (In terms of snarkiness)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Don't think so.

But I'll let JM answer for himself.

………… parent

Weird. According to GoRight logic

  "...... more like Hitler than Bush", implies that Bush was like Hitler.

I am surprised that a loyal Bush apologist like yourself would admit that Bush was like Hitler.

 

 

………… parent

You seem to be logically challenged ...

"...... more like Hitler than Bush", implies that Bush was like Hitler.

It implies no such thing, although I guess it depends on what the definition of "like" is.  There are many ways in which things can be "alike".   All this implies is that wherever Bush and Hitler lie on the spectrum of good and evil, that Obama is closer to Hitler than Bush.

Here is an illustration for you:

"Good" = Bush <-- Obama --> Hitler = "Evil"

 

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

pffftt.

 

 If you spell Hitler backwards, Reltih, the archaic hebrew definition is, GoRight is equivocating.

 It depends on what the definition of 'like' is like.

 

………… parent

Interesting. I through the depends on the defintion ...

schtick for your benefit, not mine.  I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to whether the point is debatable or not.  From my perspective Hitler had a Youth Corps, Obama has a Youth Corps, Bush didn't have a Youth Corps, ergo in the dimension of "having Youth Corps" Obama is more like Hitler than Bush.  So all other things being equal, overall all Obama is more like Hitler than Bush.

This is undeniable.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

That's an oxymoron of sorts

all other things being equal, overall

By invoking "all other things being equal" you are making "overall" equivalent to "in this specific instance." You can't really have it both ways. "Overall, Obama is more like Hitler than Bush" is absolutely not undeniable. In the specific instance of having a Youth Corps, it is undeniable, but also pretty meaningless.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

Well having your own

personal "Youth Corps" would suggest a kind of cult of personnality, which can be dangerous to a democracy.  So  I googled the phrase.  The hits were almost all with right-wing and PUMA paranoid drivel.  There was one site selling buttons.

The "Obama Youth Corps", in the sense of brownshirt activists personally loyal to him, does not exist.  There is no valid comparison with the Hitlerjugend.

 

………… parent

In your opinion.

There is no valid comparison with the Hitlerjugend.

Others obviously disagree.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Yes, and I hereby declare them

all to be paranoid right-wing kooks.  Heh, I just did the same thing I slammed Centinel for doing: No True Scotsman believes Obama has a Hitler Youth!

Let me put it differently: Do you agree?  Maybe there are roving bands of Obamathugs breaking windows, stifling dissent and carving backwords Bs on McCain volunteer faces.

Or maybe, just maybe, the right is trying to manufacture something sinister in order to attack Obama.  I'd say it's a testament to his political (not his moral) performance to date if the right feels it has to do that.  I can't think of a single area where he's vulnerable on his right flank in terms of majority support on a salient issue.

………… parent

Gee, I felt the same way ...

Or maybe, just maybe, the right left is trying to manufacture something sinister in order to attack Obama Bush I'd say it's a testament to his political (not his moral) performance to date if the right left feels it has to do that.

Is this statement any more valid because you say it than if I make the comparable point in reverse?

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

No, no, Corph is right, well as in correct on this one.

It is those miserable war veterans coming back from fighting for our country and forming bands of white supremeist killers that we should be worried about, those damn right wing extremists!

I know this is true cause Janet Napalitano said so .

Or not .

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

"Right Wing Extremist"

Insofar as economics is concerned, the Founding Fathers and prominent Patriots were "right" in that respect.

Insofar as social policy and foreign policy of their day, they were Extremely far left for their time in terms of the centralized laws. No Bills of Attainder applied to all, even to people Thomas Paine.

They were the Yellow Bars of their day.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

No they were not libertrians.

They were Purple bars, federalists, nothings changed there.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Yes

because I haven't made any claims about a Bush Youth?  College Republicans are anything but sinister.  Although attendees at Republican rallies in 2004 really did have to sign support pledges.  I don't recall one instance of someone being removed from a Kerry rally for wearing a contrarian T-shirt, and I saw quite a few of them.

I know some kooks did it anyway, but there was no need to manufacture stuff to throw at Bush.  See, the differnce between the attacks on Bush over war intel, illegal wiretaps, torture memos, bloated spending, crony capatilism, etc. and the attacks on Obama over his youth corps is that the former set is accurate.

The baddies are on your side.  There is no hypocrisy here.

………… parent

I respectfully submit ...

that the body of evidence is against you on this point.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

He he.

By invoking "all other things being equal" you are making "overall" equivalent to "in this specific instance."

But of course this is true.  Is this one of those true but misleading things you complain about? :)

In the specific instance of having a Youth Corps, it is undeniable

Which is, of course, all I ever claimed ... all other things being equal.  You guys are getting better at spotting the angles and key phrases I leave as my escape hatches! :)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

If the captive's stories are true, Obama will make heads roll

Obama is not going to stand for prisoner beatings done in this name, I am confident of that. 
Meanwhile, Obama has started the ball rolling on the process of deailing with the detainees long term.
Better than Bush.

………… parent

Word on the ground at Gitmo ...

seems to be that Obama was lying about all that.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Obama limiting defendent's rights more than Bush.

Obama Legal Team Wants Defendants' Rights Limited

The Obama administration is asking the Supreme Court to overrule long-standing law that stops police from initiating questions unless a defendant's lawyer is present, another stark example of the White House seeking to limit rather than expand rights. The administration's action _ and several others _ have disappointed civil rights and civil liberties groups that expected President Barack Obama to reverse the policies of his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush, after the Democrat's call for change during the 2008 campaign.

Why the claim of "more"?  Because Obama is trying to restrict rights that Bush didn't without having restored any that Bush did.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Obama may be just like Bush for supporting Military Tribunals.

After all the faux pilitical theatre of the first 100 days of the Obamanation, we are finding that yet again Obama was likely lying when he promised to end the Military tribunals.

U.S. May Revive Guantánamo Military Courts

The Obama administration is moving toward reviving the military commission system for prosecuting Guantánamo detainees, which was a target of critics during the Bush administration, including Mr. Obama himself.

Officials said the first public moves could come as soon as next week, perhaps in filings to military judges at the United States naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, outlining an administration plan to amend the Bush administration’s system to provide more legal protections for terrorism suspects.

Well, well.  Isn't this interesting.  All that bluster about how unconstitutional the military tribunals were and here Obama is going to continue using them.  Hmmm.  Sort of makes you wonder about how sincere he was on the campaign trail, eh?

Officials who work on the Guantánamo issue say administration lawyers have become concerned that they would face significant obstacles to trying some terrorism suspects in federal courts. Judges might make it difficult to prosecute detainees who were subjected to brutal treatment or for prosecutors to use hearsay evidence gathered by intelligence agencies.

Wow, and the sticking point seems to be that they want to continue to use evidence that is not admissible in a US Court of Law.  Isn't that supposed to be a bad thing?  Here Obama is planning to do the same thing.

Obama administration officials — and Mr. Obama himself — have said in the past that they were not ruling out prosecutions in the military commission system. But senior officials have emphasized that they prefer to prosecute terrorism suspects in existing American courts. When President Obama suspended Guantánamo cases after his inauguration on Jan. 20, many participants said the military commission system appeared dead.

Yep, that's what they said.

But in recent days a variety of officials involved in the deliberations say that after administration lawyers examined many of the cases, the mood shifted toward using military commissions to prosecute some detainees, perhaps including those charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks.

“The more they look at it,” said one official, “the more commissions don’t look as bad as they did on Jan. 20.”

Hmmm.  Now that they are in charge of not letting these people loose all of a sudden their tune changes.  And it sounds  a lot like the one that Bush was singing.  I guess that they lied when they said they were going to change things.  Seems the more that this group "changes" things the more the are just the same.

Several officials insisted on anonymity because the administration has directed that no one publicly discuss the deliberations.

Administration officials said Friday that some detainees would be prosecuted in federal courts and noted that Mr. Obama had always left open the possibility of using military commissions.

Hmmm.  Sounds like some serious backpeddaling to me.  Go figure.  Someone's going to have to point me to an Obama quote to that effect if they want me to actually believe that.

Still, during the presidential campaign Mr. Obama criticized the commissions, saying that “by any measure our system of trying detainees has been an enormous failure,” and declaring that as president he would “reject the Military Commissions Act.”

Yep, that's how I remember it too.

The military commissions, which were established specifically for trying Guantánamo detainees, have been subject to repeated delays and court challenges that argued that detainees were being denied basic rights of American law. Only two trials have been completed in the nearly eight years since the Bush administration announced that it would use military tribunals.

Yea, like the past four months while all the detainees were sitting on the hands waiting ... and after making all the fuss over how these poor soles were not receiving their due process.  Seems like the net result for the really bad boys is that Obama has added 4 months to their time served without action.

Any plan to adjust the military commissions would walk a tightrope of granting the suspects more rights yet stopping short of affording them the rights available to defendants in American courts. Several lawyers say the commissions are only beneficial for the government if they make it easier to win a prosecution than it would be in federal court.

The Bush administration’s commission system was criticized in part because it permitted evidence that would often be barred in federal court, like evidence obtained through coercive interrogations and hearsay.

The administration is likely to make it more difficult for prosecutors to admit hearsay, while not excluding it entirely, the lawyers said. The hearsay issue is central to many Guantánamo cases because they are based on intelligence reports and detainees may never be permitted to cross-examine the sources of those reports.

Hmmm.  Adopting the Bush MO with minor modifications isn't what Obama was elected to do.  This is a real slap in the face of his ardent supporters.  How used they must feel now, except prehaps those who refuse to see the obvious right in front of them.

Human rights groups said Friday that using any form of military commission would be seen as permitting shortcuts that would not be available in existing American courts.

Yep, just like Bush was accused of doing.  Where's the change?

Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said that Mr. Obama had pledged to return the country to the rule of law and that “continuing with the military commission system would be a retreat from that promise.”

Gabor Rona, the international legal director of Human Rights First, said military commissions would only be necessary if the administration wanted to assure convictions that might not otherwise be certain.

“The administration is making a huge mistake,” Mr. Rona said, “if they believe getting convictions through suspect methods is more valuable than letting justice take its course.”

That's right.  It is a huge mistake to promise the American people one thing and then to do the exact opposite, but the appears to be what's about to happen.

It is not clear how many of the remaining 241 detainees are likely to be prosecuted. The four-month suspension of military commission proceedings Mr. Obama ordered is to end May 20. As a result, administration officials are considering whether to ask military judges at Guantánamo for an additional delay. In making such a request, administration lawyers might outline their proposed changes.

Interesting.  They want even MORE delays.  Is Obama planning to run out the clock on this issue?  I mean he's got at least 3+ years left to go.  That seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

In recent days, senior administration officials have hinted publicly that commissions were far from dead, yet offered no specifics and their comments drew little attention. In Congressional testimony on Thursday, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said, “The commissions are still very much on the table.”

No surprise here.  They are all lying through their teeth.  Lip service in the name of justice.

In a news conference this week, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. emphasized that if the administration did use military commissions, the rules must give detainees “a maximum amount of due process.”

But, speaking of detainees whom American officials have accused of involvement in major terrorist plots, Mr. Holder added, “It may be difficult for some of those high-value detainees to be tried in a normal federal court.”

Whoa,  really?  Who would ahve ever thought so?  You were so certain on January 20 that these commissions were the worst possible atrocity imaginable and now you are switching to embrace them?  Sorry, but I'm not going to let you try and slipt that one under the rug.

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Protesters against Obama are arrested.

See here .

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Obama uses political appointess to interfere with DOJ ...

in prosecution of voter intimidation case.

EXCLUSIVE: Career lawyers overruled on voting case
Black Panthers had wielded weapons, blocked polls

Justice Department political appointees overruled career lawyers and ended a civil complaint accusing three members of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense of wielding a nightstick and intimidating voters at a Philadelphia polling place last Election Day, according to documents and interviews

...

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Obama adopts Bush-era policy of multilateral negotiations ...

with North Korea, as discussed here .

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

The Right Does Community Organizing....?

 Those grassroots tea bag organiziers. Maybe Rudy G  and the Gang shouldn't have mocked Obama's community organizing skills after all.

 That grassroots stuff where Fox News gives you thousands of dollars of free promotional advertising, Glenn Beck idols come to see their new hero, as corporate sponsored think tanks spend endless hours using Fox News to pretend like the "Tea Parties" were a grassroots movement.

 The constructive message ..... some people are whining in a group about supporting the US government with their taxes, while Sean Hannity gets them to chant USA, USA.

 Meanwhile the purists in the 'movement' the Ron Paul supports exhort selfishness and decry altruism as a vice that has destroyed America.

 

  

 

 

…………

That had to be

the most dickish comment of the entire 2008 campaign.  And it was said during a primetime speech at the RNC, no less.

Amazing that Giuliani went from front-runner to nobody within a few short months and that wherever he campaigned his poll numbers went down...

………… parent

Obama was a community rabble rouser.

He was there to stir the pot to get money for orginaztions like ACORN and others. What a wonderful resume builder?

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Yes, it is.

He worked face to face with people in economic dispair.  He helped laid-off people in poor neighborhoods get jobs.  He helped poor tenants get the city to clean the asbestos out of their buildings.

There are worse ways to learn how to serve as an elected official.

If you have any links about Obama I dunno, scamming people or inciting riots or something, feel free to share it.

P.S.  Do you have anything against ACORN, other than the fact the people they register tend to vote Democratic?  They were required by law to submit the (flagged) Micky Mouse registrations, y'know.

………… parent

I do.

P.S.  Do you have anything against ACORN, other than the fact the people they register tend to vote Democratic?  They were required by law to submit the (flagged) Micky Mouse registrations, y'know.

I object to their illegal attempts to register non-existence people for the purpose of enabling Democrats to vote early and often.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

you're paranoid

Despite numerous prosecutions for voter registration fraud, prosecuters have filed no charges for actual vote fraud.

This vote fraud conspiracy exists only in the Republican hack hive-mind.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

Are you kidding me?

Your defending ACORN now?

They were convicted of voter fraud in 1986 in Missouri.

...the group is a partisan player that engages in unscrupulous election practices. They point to 12 ACORN members convicted of voter fraud in Missouri in 1986...

How can you justify an outfit like this getting taxpayer money and involving itself in elections?

Adam, Adam, Adam...?

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

"ACORN" is not the "New BPPSD"

That guy in the video looks like a NBPPSD guy. What is the point of it?

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

getting taxpayer money and involved in elections

... getting taxpayer money and involving itself in elections?

So ACORN is no different than half of the large corporations in America (especially military contractors) who donate to political campaigns. ...but I'm sure that none of those companies have ever broken any laws, right?

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

you're citing the Washington Times?

Republicans say the group is a partisan player that engages in unscrupulous election practices. They point to 12 ACORN members convicted of voter fraud in Missouri in 1986

So this is apparently third-hand information that the WT got from partisan hacks in the middle of a campaign to discredit their opponent. There's no indication that the WT reporter actually verified this claim or even knows what case they are referring to.

On top of that, just the other day I noticed the WT make a horrendous factual error in one of their editorials about the New BPPSD :

The Obama Justice Department did take one action against one of the four defendants: It forbade him from again "displaying a weapon within 100 feet of any open polling location" in Philadelphia. Given that it already was illegal to display a weapon at a polling place and that he was not even enjoined from carrying a weapon at polling places outside of Philadelphia, it is hard to see what this order accomplished.

Actually, in PA it is legal to display a gun INSIDE of a polling place , so I figure it is also okay to display a nightstick OUTSIDE of a polling place. The WT staff is apparently just plain lazy when it comes to fact-checking -- even when an expert (a federal prosecutor) implies that they have their facts mixed up.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

The 1986 vote fraud case

This case is news to me. It's not something that I would have been aware of, and if true it would provide reason to be suspicious that  ACORN is up to something more than just sloppy and overzealous voter registration.

However, your evidence is not convincing (as I pointed out above), and I haven't been able to find any corroberation online. Some websites refer to this case, but they either link to the WT story that you provided or they link to a defunct page on a Richmond website, where a search turns up no results.

So I'm unconvinced, but open to convincing if I can see the details of this case, specifically what role these people had in ACORN and exaclty what they were convicted of.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

LOL! Sorry, I goofed on the Black panther video, sorry.

I will look more for the 1986 case, but I find it very interesting tht it is linked and referred to all over, but all trce of it has been SEO'd. hhmmmm?

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

I care about the GOP, not ACORN

Your defending ACORN now?

I don't really care about ACORN, I just want Republicans/conservatives to focus on creating an effective opposition party. The GOP is a joke right now. You guys need to drop the conspiracy theories, culture wars, and xenophobia.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

………… parent

Conservtives will be just fine if they just get authentic...

....and stay true to their principles.

Their real problems came when they tried to act like democrats.

Trust me, there are a lot of folks out there right this second, having the US and Canadian governments owning 72% of GM, being 11 Trillion in debt, and the two largest lenders on the planet nationalized, who are looking for a constitutionally retsrained federal government, self responsibility, and liberty.

Look what happens in these mid terms, you'll be surprised!

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

What is up with Sarah Palin?

First from Balloon Juice:

"In her first out-of-state political appearance since last fall’s presidential election, former GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin confided to 3,000 at a right-to-life event here that she had “just for a fleeting moment” contemplated seeking an abortion after learning she was pregnant with her son Trig, who will turn 1 on Saturday."   There is a name for when women who are pregnant are allowed to determine whether or not they keep their baby or have an abortion. It is called pro-choice.  - True dat.  Funny how they just don't seem to want others to have the same freedom of choice.

The there's her running Alaska into a ditch:

U.S. News' Paul Bedard reported this week that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's "bright star has fast faded in the eyes of Washington Republican officials and analysts." Bedard quoted a GOP strategist who has worked for George W. Bush who noted that Palin is "starting to look like she's having trouble being governor of Alaska."...

The Alaska Legislature voted 35 to 23 on Thursday to reject the confirmation of Wayne Anthony Ross, Gov. Sarah Palin's pick for attorney general.  According to Legislative Research Services, it was the first time in state history a head of a state agency has failed to be confirmed by the Legislature. All the Democrats in the Legislature voted against Ross and were joined by nine Republicans, including the Senate president and House speaker.

I tell ya, I still see a few cars on the road with Sarah Palin 2012 stickers on them & I can't help but crack up.  It makes me wonder whether those poor souls read about her current messes.

 

…………

Not phased by it at all.

Given how Barry has run the entire country into the ground in less than 100 days even at her worst, Palin would be a step up!

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

You have to admit that Sarah's acting kinda funny

though....I mean she even has the Republicans in Alaska pissed at her for trying to name a bigot & KKKer to be State AG & trying to name republicans to a Democratic seat in government (not once but twice now).

That plus Alaska is in the red when oil is below $62 a barrel, which it has been for months.  Alas GR, I feel your pain.

I'll cry in my beer that Obama has ordered his Justice Dept to continue Bush's National Security claims in courts....but that's something the House & Senate will address.  Now that a Democrat is in power, republicans will even vvote to cut back on the imperial powers that Bush & now Obama have used.....but Sarah...she reminds me of what a couple of the Blue Collar comedians have said,  you can't fix stupid.

You gotta be happy that Obama keeps saying he isn't going to touch gun control though.....That's funny..Gun Store owners are laughing all the way to the bank right now.  I can't believe that the price of the legal AK's is running $700 now because of the run.  I can see owning a rifle & I can see owning a shotgun & pistols but what on earth can you do with an assault rifle other than spray bullets at a bunch of things/folks?  If the day ever comes that we are fighting the government, you won't be able to waste ammo like that.  Single shots....way better use of resources unless you're storming a building or something.

………… parent

I will admit ...

that I haven't really been following the details of Alaskan politics so you may be right.  I won't dispute your points because I don't have the time to look into the details further.

You gotta be happy that Obama keeps saying he isn't going to touch gun control though.....That's funny..Gun Store owners are laughing all the way to the bank right now.  I can't believe that the price of the legal AK's is running $700 now because of the run.

I have an inherent distrust of Democrats on gun issues.  You can thank Billy Boy Clinton for that, oh and Schumer and Biden and especially Feinstein ... architect of this monstrosity .  I hope Obama means it but I have information that suggests he may not be as forthright as he appears:

Obama’s website post new gun control plans.

The Agenda

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

but even a hint of reviving the assault weapons ban is enough to put me on high alert.  So much for ML's assurances on Obama's behalf and how the NRA is lying.

I don't currently own an AK47 but I certainly would like to.  It would make a nice addition to my "arsenal" as the Democrats like to call any collection of more than 1 gun and/or a few rounds of ammunition.  Seems like I'm gonna have to wait now that the price is up, though.  To be honest I haven't been to a gun show in years.

Seems like the gun stores should be importing them as fast as they can just in case.  Get while the gettin's good, I say.  Hmmm, maybe I better head out to a gun show again ...

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

What would you use

the AK47 for?  It kind of takes the sport out of hunting.

Please don't tell it's to fend off the Obama DOJ.  They're not coming.

………… parent

Please don't tell it's to

Please don't tell it's to fend off the Obama DOJ. They're not coming.

Didn't you hear that Obama is a fascist?? Or have you heard the claim but are not convinced? If so, here's a brilliant, articulate, clear, powerful case that proves irrefutably that Obama is indeed a fascist.

………… parent

Well maybe the definition isn't applicable, just yet.

fas⋅cism

1. a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

I like to target shoot.

That's a sport.  Having an AK47 would enhance that experience, not diminish it.  I like to collect historically significant firearms.  That's a hobby.

Do I need any more reason than that to exercise my INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms?

Please don't tell it's to fend off the Obama DOJ.  They're not coming.

Yea?  Tell that to Elian Gonzalez.

Or Randy Weaver's wife and son .

Or the Branch Dividians .

Or ...

 

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

AK47?

Are you sure that's an AK47?

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

No, that's not an AK47.

That's a (probably full auto) H&K MP5 submachine gun .  I don't think that I implied it was an AK47, but if I did I apologize for the confusion.  The MP5 would be preferred for close quarters engagements like the kidnapping of innocent children by a Democrat administration as we see pictured above.

The AK47 is more an infantry weapon.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

I like to go sport shooting

 with my canon.

………… parent

Excellent.

Owning and firing a canon is perfectly legal you know.  There is absolutely no reason to restrict the private ownership thereof.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Have you seen the Barrett .338 Lapua Mag?

www.98bravo.com/   Now that's some nice long distance shooting.  Not as noisy as a 50 cal but still can reach out there.

………… parent

Wow, that is SWEET.

Now I want one of those too!  :)

I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning!
-- Bugs Bunny (Hey, that's me!)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

canon as in

 my camera.

  You know what they say one picture is a thousand words.

………… parent

That was pretty clever

Maybe you're only one quarter stupid! :)

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

lol

 may be!

………… parent

+4

.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Maybe you could author the new GOP

 slogan. None of this mealy mouthed liberal garbage about a chicken in every pot.

 More like a tank in every garage, and an AKA47 in every closet.

 Long live Waco.

 

………… parent

Funny constantly mock Rush Limbaugh?

You have so much in common.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

just for a fleeting

 “just for a fleeting moment” contemplated seeking an abortion after learning she was pregnant with her son Trig, who will turn 1 on Saturday."   There is a name for when women who are pregnant are allowed to determine whether or not they keep their baby or have an abortion. It is called pro-choice.  - True dat.  Funny how they just don't seem to want others to have the same freedom of choice.

I'm sure there's plenty of things that people have considered doing for fleeting moments, which they do not wish to be legal.

………… parent

Indeed. "Balloon Juice"

Indeed. "Balloon Juice" sounds like a moron who has stumbled across some juxtaposition of phrases that kinda sorta sound related and suitable for his purposes and thinks that pasting them together forms some kind of actual (clever) argument. It don't. True dat.

………… parent

:)

Straight from the mouth (er... fingers) of our resident hypopartisan.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Came across this video

Came across this video yesterday (John, I think you'll like this, you wacky orange bar, you  ) http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf
 
I think it's impressive artistically and rhetorically, even though I'm not nearly that libertarian (actually at one point the message sounds downright anarchistic to me, seemingly implying that an individual is free to completely defy any exercise of any authority by any official to whom he did not personally grant that particular authority, but perhaps I'm misreading it a bit).
 
On the fiscal policy implications, I've always said that I can respect libertarian fiscal policy the view that, other than the tricky factor of the "free rider problem" ( http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-rider/  ), an individual has a right to keep 100% of what he has earned or has otherwise come to own rather than to have it confiscated and given to someone else (directly or in effect). After all, although it's arguable under sufficiently extreme circumstances that putting a gun to my neighbor's head and demanding that he contribute more to some charity would be moral, it generally would not be considered moral and generally wouldn't be even if doing so were legal.
 
But again, that "free rider problem" gets tricky and there are large gray areas in which, for example, some large percentage of the population favors what is, in effect, some particular type and level of philanthropy, but which, if funded entirely via individual decisions on individual contribution levels, could present a large free rider problem as well as great inefficiencies (e.g., lost economies of scale).

…………

Trust are Private

I think it's impressive artistically and rhetorically, even though I'm not nearly that libertarian (actually at one point the message sounds downright anarchistic to me, seemingly implying that an individual is free to completely defy any exercise of any authority by any official to whom he did not personally grant that particular authority, but perhaps I'm misreading it a bit).

As long as there never could be anything such as cartels, trust, monopolies... the "vision" of the Ken Schooland would lead way to his utopia.

Freedom to "willfully" buy from the company store. With the cartels willfully not employing one who isn't towing a given company's line.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

Unauthorized vs. illegal?

Pew: Here's a profile of illegal undocumented unauthorized(?) immigrants in the U.S. I actually kinda like unauthorized as a description. I think it hits a little closer to the status.

If someone comes here in an unauthorized (by immigration law) way, how is it that they are not here illegally?  I fail to see any distinction other than you want to whitewash what they are doing.

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

…………

It is a whitewash

But it's not really whitewashing what the illegal immigrant is doing.   Instead, it's whitewashing our tendency to knee-jerk.  

Unauthorized does mean illegal.   But unauthorized is less inflammatory.   I see it as helping to avoid the immediate "but you must just hate brown people" reaction.   Anything that lets us get past an emotional response and on to the more serious matter of sane immigration policy and its enforcement is good in my book.

It's rather like "negro" and "black".   Negro means black; we borrowed the word from another language.  Using Black is just as descriptive, but less inflammatory.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

………… parent

African American PF, is the currently perferred normenclature

Which annoys me to no end actually.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Regional, maybe?

Down here in my part of the world, "black" is often used in the media; and in personal conversation, when it's necessary to even mention skin color at all, "black" (and "white" and "hispanic") are the terms of choice.  

I always found African-American to be rather awkward, myself, but I'm ok with it.  It's just a bit wordy and has this hint of an implication that black-skinned people are not just as much Americans as the rest of us.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

………… parent

Not to mention that Dave

Not to mention that Dave Matthews, Charlize Theron, almost anyone from any north African country are are all born and raised in Africa, but no one would really call the African-American.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

Excellent point!

nt

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent