Monday + Tuesday Open Thread
Legal stories of the day: Bernie Madoff faces sentencing, and SCOTUS decides on the Ricci case
.
In international news, there was an apparent military coup in Honduras on Sunday, and Iran begins a "re-" count
of some ballots in the presidential election.
Finally, Obama advisor David Axelrod refused to rule out the taxing of health care benefits to help pay for the heath care reform bill making its way through congress. This is a stark contrast to Obama's campaign promise not to raise taxes on middle class families. Sen. McCain's health care plan did rely on taxing health care benefits, which President Obama called "the biggest middle class tax increase in history
". [edit by stinerman; SL and I posted OTs at the same time]
And now for something really important: Transformers 2 may be the worst-reviewed $400million hit.
This is an open thread.
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Comments :
Breaking News: SUPREME COURT DOES THE RIGHT THING!
Sotomayor overturned!
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
WHAT DID YOU SAY????
I CAN'T HEAR YOU? DID YOU HAVE ANY MORE SPECIFICS.
DID THEY RULE IN THE CASE OR TURN IT BACK TO THE STATE?
DID THEY PULL THE TRIGGER?
I'm only half stupid
Take the Obama-phones off and clean your ears...they ruled.
They "overturned" Sotomayor.
I am not sure it's your ears that are in question, it is acutely evident, it's the thickness of that skull of yours that is the real impediment here.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
They overturned a ruling Sotomayer participated in. They didn't
overturn Sotomayer.
Keep up the fallacies though.
Ya, maybe it's just me...
Sotomyor is the person in question, she is the person nominated for the supreme court position, she voter, and her vote was overturned, simple as that.
Keep up the fallacies though...Geeze!
Boy. the headlines seem to agree...
SUPREME COURT OVERTURNS SOTOMAYOR;
SIDES WITH WHITE FIREFIGHTERS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Yeah, Drudge isn't a sensationalist at all! n/t
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Well, after all it's a sensational story...
...you're just making rotten eggs out of eggs benedict because YOU don't like the results!
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Actually
I don't have a big problem with the results. I do think that it was not Sotomayor's job as an appeals court judge to overturn the law that she was working with. (Although I also wouldn't have raised a huge fuss if she did.) That's for the Supreme Court to do. So I don't see this as a judgment against Sotomayor, particularly. The sensational part of the story is what this means for Affirmative Action, but you and Drudge seem to be more interested in what it means for Sotomayor - which should be "nothing" - but I'm sure the right wing spin machine will do their best to drum up a false story - they are quite good at that!
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
It's not a false story...
...to say that would be to ignore reality.
Sure the affirmative action impact is an awesome sign that we are finally moving beyond racial stereotypes and letting people achieve based on their own merit once and for all.
Sotomayor and Obama are both living proof that if you want it in America it's available to you no matter who you are.
This was the right decision, I am thrilled.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
The Greatest Irony in this decision
that the majority opinion written by Justice Kennedy spends a goodly amount of time citing the reasons to be *empathetic* towards the white firefighters plight!
While Ginsberg's liberal decision cites precedent, as is the won't of a non-activist reading of the law.
This is going to create a glut of lawsuits likely by right wing activist lawyers representing white men that feel they have been unfairly discriminated against.
Hopefully the reading is narrow enough that it will apply only to the test and not create a flood of lawsuits that could financially criple already stressed city budgets.
Since New Haven has a large black population, in the interest of serving the community the affirmative action rulings were to ensure that city firemen reflect the make up of the community so as to better serve it's needs. At least that was the original intent, due to the reality that in largely populated minority neighborhoods the firefighters were always white.
I'm only half stupid
False assumption
I'm getting a bit off topic, but this stuck out at me:
Can anyone give me a plausible reason as to how the color of a fireman's skin would better serve the needs of a community? I would think the best way to serve the needs of a community would be to have the best firefighters on staff.
Does having a particular percentage of Black firefighters help to put out more fires? Does it prevent more?
I don't know that we need a diverse Supreme Court or FBI or fire department. I know that we want a Supreme Court that makes judicially sound decisions, an FBI that is efficient in making cases against suspected criminals, and a fire department that quickly responds to and fights fires. The race, color, creed, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or age of the people who make up these departments would not seem to matter as to how these functions are carried out.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
+4
n/t
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
I assume then that you
would have no problem with say, an all black Supreme Court, or all HIspanics, or all women, to represent the legal views of the United States as long as they are the best justices to have on the staff.
Or an all Catholic Supreme Court, or an all gay Supreme Court as long as they are the best justices to have on the staff.
How about an all black police force to serve the people of Columbus, Ohio, as long as they were the best in the area.
These examples are of course hypotheticals.
What are the chances of having an all black police force serving Columbus?
We will assume the all black police force got the highest scores on their test and therefore no white person in the Columbus area would feel any tweeks or pangs of unfairness because the police force is monochrome.
If you say to yourself, no that would never happen, then ask yourself why.
Why are the odds of having an all black police force not the same as the odds of having an all white police force. (assuming the racial breakdown is similar to New Haven, 60% black and 40% white).
I'm only half stupid
You would be correct
None of those scenarios bother me in the slightest. In fact, we're already pretty close to having an all-Catholic SCOTUS.
If you grant me awhile to look over my statistics notes, I can calculate exact probabilities for you based on the assumption that both Black and White Americans are equally likely to be qualified for the position.
The are plenty of reasons that don't have to do with overt or covert racism. Sports (outside professional hockey) are pretty heavily "biased" toward Blacks. When I say biased, I mean in the statistical sense, not the legal sense. This doesn't bother me much either. It seems that Black men and women happen to be more athletically gifted than their white counterparts, speaking as a whole. It would make sense that they'd be overrepresented. Perhaps Whites have certain cultural or social (or maybe even genetic!) dispositions to certain professions. We already know women generally possess higher aptitude for language while men possess higher aptitude for mathematics, speaking as a whole.
I tend to think the reason why there is a disparity is that Black Americans are more likely to have poorer education because they tend to live in poorer neighborhoods which makes them lesser candidates for job opportunities. The proper fix is to increase the education of Black Americans, not give them jobs for which more qualified applicants exist.
In any case, the big picture fix is to make affirmative action class-based, not race based. That takes care of the problem (rich Black Americans don't need assistance) and has the added benefit of being constitutional.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
okay....
Class based affirmative action, is essentially race based affirmative action.
Class based affirmative action, I am guessing would be equally as offensive to those who despise race based affirmative action.
As an example, those that rail against Sotomayer claim that the Only Reason she made it where she is today, is because you know *wink wink*, she was an affirmative action hire. She got a scholarship based on her race and would never have made it through the system without racial quotas. IN other words she must have been too stupid to make it on her own in the all white system.
If the proper fix is education, the same folks that despise affirmative action abhor public education, as a waste of tax payer money. "Why should I have to support that welfare queens kids by paying my taxes to send the little brats to school.".
Your theory that a particular test will pick who is and is not qualified for a job is the issue that Ricci was dealing with. The test. Was the test itself fair or was the test biased. That question was asked since none of the minority applicants scored well on the test. It is easy to imagine a rigged test that would weed out the minority elements intentionally. Given that in a fire fighting situation, someone who scores 100% on a written test, might not be the most qualified person to respond well in an on the spot emergency situation where you have to show the moxy to think on your feet.
I am not saying right or wrong, here, I am just saying that this is a very complex issue, on many levels that can't be broad brushed by claiming that whoever is most qualified should get the job based on the merits of a some written test, when the test itself could easily be biased. This is essentially what the Ricci case was about. The test was thrown out because no minorities did well and the question is was that an intentional bias of the test itself.
I'm only half stupid
Fair enough
I don't care if people like it or not. Class-based affirmative action addresses a particular social problem in a constitutional way. You can't make everyone happy.
That might very well be. I assume that the people doing the hiring know what are the best characteristics are to be a successful firefighter. Any incidental bias in the test is not grounds for throwing out the results. There will always be bias in any test.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
They overturned everyone
Well, they overturned a decision everyone joined.
The panel was unanimous and upon an en banc hearing, the decision was still unanimous.
The appeals court judges did what they should have done -- applied precedent. The SCOTUS then changed that precedent, which is what I believe they should have done too.
This is exactly what we ought to expect in our court system. Appeals court judges following, in my opinion, bad precedent and allowing the SCOTUS to overturn it after a hearing.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Breaking News: MADOFF GETS 150 YEARS!
n/t
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
He got off easy
He spent decades embezzling as much money as he could and actively tried to recruit new people to embezzle from.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
It was awful, but what else could they do really?
Tar and feather him, put him on the rack on public display to be pummeled with rotten fruit?
He is a tragic old man who will live out his life in a cold sterile cell.
No amount of punishment will make things right, we know some people in NY who had a charitable foundation, it was wiped out to the tune of millions of dollars...
It just sucks all the way round.
I feel kind of sorry for his boys, they were as duped as everyone else, and they have to live with this shame for the rest of their lives, not to mention they lost their careers and life's work in this whole thing...
...anyway.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Justice, not punishment
We don't look to punish people, rather we look to find justice. We used to, at least.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Punishment is part of administering justice...
It used to be, at least. ;-)
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Another delicious twist of fate
To those who are unfamiliar with Minnesota's, Michele Bachmann of government conspiracy overdrive, who has been sweetly promoting fear mongering theories of threats of internment camps based on census data, well, she might actually be accidently working herself out of a seat. (Bwahahaha)
The delicious twist is that she has been disencentivizing folks from filling out the Census forms.
If enough people in Minnesota, actually take her seriously, the lack of population data in her district might become her enemy.
The Representatives are allocated by population data from the *census*!
If enough folks in Michele's district don't fill out their forms, because of her hyperbolic rants, she could potentially conspiracy theory herself right of a seat in Congress, because there won't be enough people in her district to merit a representative in Washington.
I'm only half stupid
Delicious huh?
What a inauspicious sense of politics you possess.
...delicious, wow???
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Twist
Delicious twist of fate. Ironic.
It's utterly absurd that Bachmann is railing against the census and it is ironic that if people buy into her conspiracy theories, that she might lose her seat in Congress.
I'm only half stupid
Bachmann's an idiotic bomb-thrower
and conspiracy theorist. How else are we going to apportion congressional seats? And what specifically in the census forms or administration thereof is so diabolical?
It may even be time for you Repubs to primary her. Otherwise she might urge another "penetrating exposé" and find you "anti-American".
Finally over?
Seven and a half months since election day, and Minnesota may finally get their second senator
. And c-span may get a ratings boost! :)
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Yay.
OK Repubs, you know how annoying you find Franken? The way he shouts down opponents and veers off-topic? The way he uses hyperbole constantly and mocks you at every turn?
We feel that way about pretty much every one of your media spokespeople. An entire Dem caucus composed of Franken clones would be no less than you deserve.
I am excited
to have an actual outspoken liberal on board in the Senate.
With dems like Ben Nelson and Evan Bayh we could use some good tough liberals to show them the ropes. ;-)
I'm only half stupid
He is such an embarssment, I hope he stays a long long time!
LOL!
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Fedralism...
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Muslim Comics!
I found this very interesting
.
The article includes an open letter from the writer to his children:
I hope it has a postive impact.
Couldn't hurt...
I suppose everyone needs their own ethnically correct superhero...
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Islam isn't an "ethnic group"
just sayin'....
I survived the Bush Administration
Muslims aren't all Arabs either...
...the Super Hero is "ethnically" interpretable, his religion is not...
Just say'in.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Obama has lost his F'ing mind...
What does he think, the whole of human history will "change", and he has come to lead us all into a utopian new order?
Please, he's a fool
.
I am now getting scared, he has no business setting foreign policy for the US, he is a naive, underqualified, quixotic like idealist.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
What is he thinking?
With the US only able to destroy the planet 50 times over instead of 75 times over, all is lost! Buy up all the canned goods, Martha, it's time to hole up in the fallout shelter! Aieeeee!!!
What exactly is your problem with the quote, Centinel? Do you think humanity is becoming more prone to war, or less, as time goes on?
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Spoken like the rich, pretentious, elitist that you are...
...at least compared to most of "the world" of which you speak so pompously.
The world is not getting any more civil, it is more violent and warlike now than it ever has been.
Get a grip on your bad, environmentalist, liberal self there SL! LOL!
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
I love you too, Centinel
I think you are wrong, and a look at actual, you know, historical fact
, seems to back me up on this, but heck, I suppose you are entitled to your completely fact-free opinion. Interesting video here
, if you are interested, and can stand listening to a rich, pretentious, pompous elitist for 20 minutes!
BTW, if it is pompous for me to say that the world is getting less violent, that seems to apply even more so when you say that the rest of the world isn't as civil as we are. They are clearly all still violent heathens in those third world countries, hey?
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Hummph to your cite
If you're using the Pinker article
as your "I have facts and you don't" argument, then I think your facts are just about as anectdotal as Centinal's assertions.
First of all, Pinker is a psychologist, not an historian. History is a favorite topic of mine, one that I've widely read, and although I'm no lettered historian, neither is he, thus my "internet opinion" is just as valid. Nearly every sentence of his is riddled with errors.
I'd quibble with both his timeline and his assertion. To date, there has been no archeological evidence in the paleolithic of warfare. On the contrary, there is widespread evidence of harmony and care. The first evidence of warfare occurs in the mesolithic, a time of great environmental stressors as the planet adapted to the final retreat of the ice sheets. Using today's few remaining tribes to make broad, unsubstantiated-by-actual-finds assertions about past behavior is sloppy.
Ah, and we all know that of course people actually DID this kind of thing routinely. The Bible tells us so ;-) Again, there is little factual historical evidence that backs that up, and much that refutes it. The key written sources for the distant past (Herodotus, Homer, assorted clay tablets) don't describe this.
Current archeological thought is that Hobbes got it wrong, at least in the aspect that Pinker is using as support. Life in the 40,000 years of the paleolithic was much richer due to its unique environmental circumstances. Sure paleo-man had to work and risked death in pursuit of a meal, but I doubt he indulged in interpersonal violence of the scale Pinker implies; tribes that did so would quickly end up gone, as males were needed for both the strenuous work of hunting megafauna and reproduction. As I stated before, there is no archeological evidence that backs up his claims.
The rest of his assertions lie within the concept of "gee, we're just so much smarter now."
Read the comments to that article. I'm certainly not alone in my critique, and others express it more eloquently than I do.
EDIT: There is one concept in his article I agree with, and think is valid.
The State does indeed impose a structure that makes it much more difficult to act out on violent impulses: mainly, the threat of incarceration is much greater and immediate now than in the past. Perpetrators cannot disappear as easily these days.
A related observation, which he fails to make but which I think is just as applicable, is that the modern State provides new outlets for men who, in past ages, would have raped and pillaged their way to riches. Bernie Maddox is William the Conqueror in a suit ;-) As is Bill Gates.
aargh!
I just wrote a fairly lengthy reply to this, then tried to delete a line and the stupid browser backed up to the previous page, wiping out everything I'd written. Sigh. I'll try to summarize a little later.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
I hate it when it does that! (nt)
.
Me too! It seems to happen here alot...or it seems that way...
n/t
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Trying again
The basic gist of what I wrote is that I concede that there is no good direct evidence of real early prehistoric warfare, although there is certainly some in the Upper Paleolithic
:
Also, violent deaths are not just attributable to warfare. I found this darkly amusing:
That from an article titled Prehistoric man clubbed love rivals to death, new research shows
.
The only direct evidence we do have about hunter/gatherer societies, whether modern-day ones, or the not nearly-so-ancient-as-Europe native American societies, all have plenty of evidence that they are/were pretty violent. If you want something from a real anthroplogist, instead of Pinker, there is this article
(some sort of account required to read the whole thing, alas):
Anyway, my final point is that if you take the time periods for which we do have good evidence, then the thesis that we are becoming less violent is substantiated. You can quibble about the times when we don't have evidence, but I don't think it particularly undermines the basic idea.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Actually your original premise was that...
...Obama was justified in saying something like "The future does not belong to those who maintain armies to fight on the battlefield, or keep missiles underground".
And the fact is, unless you believe in fairies, or that the human race will suddenly undergo some quantum leap forward in social evolution, he had absolutely no business saying something like that anymore than he did, "The future does not belong to those that plan on inhabiting the earth", because eventually the Sun will devour it.
Now that I think of it, the later is more realistic.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Actually...
I do believe that the human race is on the verge of quantum leap forward in social evolution (largely due to the quantum leap forward in communications technology that is already happening), but that's another story.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Ok... Anyway in today's news;
Gee that was quick...LOL!
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
Well and that's the problem
It depends upon which timeframe you choose and how you choose to tally violence---would X murders per capita be an accurate measure? How do we accurately determine both total murders and population sizes for past ages? Etc etc. One could say that the last 400 years has been exceptionally bloody, from say the Thirty Years War through WWII; a comparison of today versus then might lead one to say that we are indeed less violent now. The 1000 before that were also punctuated by war. But does that offset 40,000 which were generally not?
I found Pinker to be an exceptionally weak argument, and I don't believe you've substantiated your claim that the facts are entirely on your side. "Mankind has gotten less violent" remains an opinion, not an established and unassailable fact. It's a rosy feel-good kind of statement so its appeal is understandable. It might also be correct. But to say it is a fact is stretching it.
Besides, to cut to the heart of the issue Centinel was addressing, I believe he was speaking more of the types of lawlessness that Pinker mentions as being due to failed states. And while stinerman makes a good point, that it is generally much safer than the timid seem to presume, I would have to ask (rhetorically) "would you have zero qualms about your girlfriend / sister / daughter travelling alone through the world?"
Edit: I'm not addressing your sources, because the literature on this topic is far too expansive to go into here, and the majority is not available online, but I had to laugh. The Daily Mail? You're citing the Daily Mail as evidence? :-) What's next, the National Enquirer?
The Daily Mail
I wasn't aware that the Daily Mail isn't reputable. Never heard of it before, actually. But the same story appears on the BBC website
, so I don't see a problem. If the journal Antiquity had online archives, I would have linked to the original article.
And sure, it may be an opinion that mankind has gotten less violent (prehistoric facts being somewhat difficult to come by, after all), but I believe it is an eminently reasonable opinion. And so I don't think it is particularly indicative of "losing one's F'ing mind," which is where this all started. Nor do I think it makes me a rich, pretentious, pompous elitist to hold that opinion.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
I can't quibble with that ;-)
You came down awfully hard by so absolutely stating that fact was on your side, and used such a weak cite to back it up that I couldn't let it stand unchallenged :-) I didn't comment on Centinel's original because he made no assertions other than his opinion.
But it's an interesting concept to explore. I think it's normal human tendency to assume that of course the present is better than the past. Even creationists and some evolutionists carry that trait around, by seeing man as the pinnacle of creation, as something better than and distinct from the rest of the animal world.
My opinion of our intrinsic propensity for violence is more level. I tend to think that if you took a modern baby and transferred them back to a cave that baby would grow up normally, and vice versa. Socially, we are perhaps both more and less violent than in the past. More violent, in that when we decide to kill, we can do it on a grand scale with little effort, and less in that our social structures have evolved to provide safer outlets for personal ambition and interpersonal friction.
Did you expect
SL to just lay down and be insulted, as a rich, pretentious, elitist, like a typical 'liberal pacificst'? :-)
SL came down awfully hard (oh poor centinel) by linking to a site that reasonably supports his opinion, while centinel's opinion was basically a personal insult, not substantiated by any facts or links.
Rhetorically speaking, how lucky for bullies like centinel, that he has folks that come leaping to his defense that his insults are harmless opinions.
One could make the case that in our civil society we have become so accustumed to insults and bullying, that we are numbed down, ignoring warning signals that such things are a precursor to violence.
IF my assertion were true you could say our own neighborhoods have become more violent, not less so. When teenage girls pride themselves on berating their classmates, beating them up and video taping 'the event' you have to wonder.
I'm only half stupid
Following you down the Meta trail for a moment....
SL is a big boy. He can take care of himself. His choice of rebuttal, though, was faulty. That's what I addressed, not the fact that he chose to reply at all. And where did I defend Centinel's opinion?
Since you resort to personal, stereotypical, and contumacious remarks yourself, calling Centinel a bully is somewhate akin to the pot calling the kettle black.
Are you actually agreeing with Centinel here? ;-)
I agree with SL
I recall seeing data that says we're in one of the most peaceful times in the history of the world. I can't recall if it was going by deaths due to war or what the metric was.
In any case, as I'm very fond of saying, the world is much, much more safe than you'd believe.
Of course, we have much work to do, but we're coming along quite nicely compared to even 50 years ago.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Statistical slight of hand...
...Sure, you may be less likely to die at the hand of another, but the 20th - and thus far the 21st centuries are raw examples of bloodshed on a scale unprecedented in human history!
Still, given your mathematical card tricks, seemingly per-capita, however illogical it may seem, and even obscene, even given WW1 and 2, pol pot, Veit Nam, the Holocaust, Stalin, Mao, genocides throughout Africa, Iraq and Darfur, it "seems" we are living in the most peaceful time in our species' existence.
This is due in large part in ridding ourselves of the cruel and sadistic aspects of religions and cultures like fundamentalist Islam, who stone people etc.
Maybe GW should get some credit then for our peaceful new world, huh?
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein
More people killed because
More people killed because there are an inordinate number of more people that could be killed is a card trick?
I'm sure the Crusades or the Viking's moves south could have been a bit bloodier if there were more people around to kill. Nearly all killed of a much smaller population likely won't reach the totals of a relatively small portion of a substantially larger population size.
There's a reason why al Qaeda tries to recruit uneducated people that have not studied/read the Quran before.
Think what they're doing with passages like these from their deity:
Deuteronomy 22:24
'Take them both to the gate of the town and stone them to death: the girl, for not having cried for help in the town [while being raped]; the man, for having [raped] another man's wife. You must banish this evil from among you.'
Deuteronomy 21:21
All the men of the town must then stone him to death [for being stubborn and rebellious]. You must banish this evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 13:8-9
You must kill them [for trying to preach a different religion]. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow.
Matthew 5:17
"[Don't ignore Deuteronomy]"
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Crazy statistics
If you want to ignore population growth, as Centinel wishes to do, then there are all sorts of conclusions to be drawn:
People were much wealthier in the Bronze Age, because there are so many more people living in poverty today.
Society is more agrarian now than the Middle Ages, because there are so many more people living outside of cities.
Measles is a deadlier disease than the Bubonic Plague ever was.
Need I go on? :)
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Ok
Do you have any data that supports your assertion?
Before you show us the data it would help to know your metric.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
I'm not interested in going on much further with this...
...but I will say...
To insinuate a bunch of marauding Vikings, or what have you were able to kill in the numbers we have in the last century is preposterous!
When you think Hitler alone killed 6 million innocent people, I mean Pol Pot killed 2 Million in a country with only 7 Million! ...come now.
We continue to have conflict and murderous regimes virtually all over the globe.
Anyone who thinks we are entering some Utopian period, and suggests the future, (at least in our lifetimes), does not belong to those who can defend themselves on the battlefield (and maintain a missile defense in our case) is either stupid, or high!
It sure appears that North Korea, Russia, Iran, China and the Taliban to name a few sure agree.
I'm telling you, we had better keep our nose pointed the right direction on this one!
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein