Halloween Open Thread

Happy Halloween, everyone.

I'm wondering about Afghanistan: why are we there ?  Have the Democrats bought into the brown bogeyman scare tactics, or does the idea of spreading democracy and stability through violence now appeal, all of a sudden?   Is Obama too much of a politician to say "you know, I've changed my mind on Afghanistan . . . . "

I'm wondering about narcissism .   Is it really the root of an intellectual inability to grasp another's POV as Dr Drew suggests?   Take the test and see where you score.   I sometimes listen to Dr. Drew's Loveline.   It's funny. 

This is an open thread.  What's on your mind?

 

 

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OMG! A new thread! Let's trash Joe Liebermann...

You're going to spoil us Purpleface.

Oh Joe!  How you crave the spotlight.  I know CT represents a bunch of the Insurance industry (Hartford) but polls show 68% of the residents want some form of Public Option in a Health Reform bill.  And Joe pulls a Joe.  I'm not pissed at Joe.  He does what he does.  I hope one thing will happen though.  I hope that if Joe does indeed vote against a cloture vote he would immediatly lose his Committee Chairmanship. 

I suspect the worst that will happen to the Health Reform bill is that in order to pass the Senate it won't have a Public Option.  I suspect the House's will and when the two meet for a reconcilation the Public Option will remain.  Then only 51 votes will be needed to pass it.  Yea Fox & the Republicans will scream.  Hell, they scream anyway so why not.  Let 'em scream.

Joe....enjoy your remaining term.  You won't get another.  More than likely he'll get a nice cushy job lobbying.

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50 votes

not 51.  Biden's the tiebreaker.  You only need 50 senator's votes.

If it comes to this, the difference between a bill that can pass with 50 votes and one that can pass with 51 could be significant.

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Narcissism

I'd post my score, but I don't want to draw any attention to myself. :)

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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Coward ;-)

I scored a 9 (Authoriity 4, Self-sufficency 3, Superiority 2).    Pretty low, given the average score nationwide is 15.3

Vanity, exhibitionism, exploitativeness, and entitlement all came in at zero.

 

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Unrelated..but...

"With less than two months to go before the big Copenhagen Conference on global warming, two major nations have said 'no thanks' to the no-growth agenda. For that reason alone, so should we. Following a deal signed late Thursday between China and India, anything we might agree to do in Copenhagen is likely moot anyway. The two mega-nations -- which together account for nearly a third of the world's population -- said they won't go along with a new climate treaty being drafted in Copenhagen to replace the Kyoto Protocol that expires in 2012. They're basically saying no to anything that forces them to impose mandatory limits on their output of greenhouse gas emissions. Other developing nations, including Mexico, Brazil and South Africa, will likely reject any proposals as well. The deal was already in trouble. Three weeks ago, the Group of 77 developing nations met in Thailand to discuss what they wanted to do about global warming. Their answer: nothing. William Hawkins, writing in the American Thinker, quotes a piece in China's Science Times journal that sums up how China -- and other developing nations -- feel: 'Why do the developed countries put an arguable scientific problem on the international negotiations table?' the article's author, Wang Jin, asks. 'The real intention is not for the global temperature increase, but for the restriction of the economic development of the developing countries.' They see clearly what the rest of us seem to miss -- that, for all its bad science, the Copenhagen Conference is about the world's Lilliputians tying down its Gullivers, not about global warming at all. So, thanks to China and India, Copenhagen is dead -- just as Kyoto was when it was signed in 1992, though no one knew it at the time. Without them, no global treaty on climate change will be workable." --Investor's Business Daily

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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The tyranny of the minority

 It's shocking that a minority of voices in the US, have shown themselves to be so regressive, and such a drag on progress, essentially blocking advancement into a better 21st century. 

 It is noteworthy that while we were distracted in Iraq, China has stockpiled business contracts for resources and is prioritizing a push to advance  greener economic development and technology, leaving the US in the dust.

The tyranny of the minority, in China, the authoritarian leader that dictates policy has already surpassed the US, with a stronger economic stimiulus and a green push, to remain competitive on the world stage.

 These few shrill voices, the tyrannical anti-progress anti-everything crowd, are so regressive, it is just a sad humiliation for the US. I have no doubt that these same folks would have voted  to imprison Galileo for having the ungodly nerve to notice that the earth revolved around the sun, and not the other way around.

 

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What world do you live in?

 It is noteworthy that while we were distracted in Iraq, China has stockpiled business contracts for resources and is prioritizing a push to advance  greener economic development and technology, leaving the US in the dust.

The tyranny of the minority, in China, the authoritarian leader that dictates policy has already surpassed the US, with a stronger economic stimulus and a green push, to remain competitive on the world stage.

 

China and India have snubbed any attempts at green reforms, they're opening coal plants like they're going out of style! They pay lip service to it, but will never capitulate.

Japan, China, India Toughen Opposition to Emissions Cuts

emissions5China, India and Japan continue to reiterate their stance against aggressive carbon emissions reductions ahead of the Copenhagen talks in December that will decide a new global climate change accord.

Although China’s climate officials appear to agree with the need to curb carbon emissions from industrial sectors, China is still a long way off from an agreement on CO2 emission reductions, reports Reuters .

 

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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Follow the leader

With less than two months to go before the big Copenhagen Conference on global warming, two major nations have said 'no thanks' to the no-growth agenda. For that reason alone, so should we.

Whither goest China, so should the U.S.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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If China and India don't go with it, it's a waste of time and $!

Period.

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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Just in time for HALLOWEEN...

Human eggs and sperm have been grown in the laboratory in research which could change the face of parenthood.

It paves the way for a cure for infertility and could help those left sterile by cancer treatment to have children who are biologically their own.

But it raises a number of moral and ethical concerns. These include the possibility of children being born through entirely artificial means, and men and women being sidelined from the process of making babies. 

 
 

 

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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Meanwhile, in Kamino

A clone army is being assembled just in time to arrest Naomi Wolfe.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

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Great substance... ;-)

?

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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How stupid do they think you are?

 Quite astonishing.

 Blue Cross sends out a letter announcing a rate increase of 11% for next year. Good news! It's the best health care you can't afford.

 In the very same letter they ask that you protest any sort of health care reform!

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local_state/story/161435.html

Protecting the status quo? The annual rate increase mailer? Blue Cross is a 'non-profit'?

Where are the options. Where is the competition?

I would call this corporate communism.

Lew Borman, a Blue Cross spokesman, said he wasn't sure how many people got the flier urging them to contact Hagan, but he said the mailing relied on voter registration records, not a customer list.

 

Since the company controls more than half of the state's health insurance market, there was unavoidable overlap.

 

Borman declined to reveal how much money the insurer paid for the mailing. Blue Cross is a nonprofit, so its finances are not as open as public companies.

 

He acknowledged the timing was unfortunate, coming as the firm typically sends its annual notices about rate increases. But he said the two mailings were coincidental, hinged to current events in Washington.

 

"We said from the beginning we were going to be involved and would tell North Carolinians what kind of impact the health-care proposals would have, and that's what we've been doing," Borman said.

 

Jenny Warburg, a freelance photojournalist in Durham, said she wishes she could switch insurance carriers over the issue, but no other company will cover her.

 

So she's stuck, and that makes her even madder.

 

"You're over a barrel," she said. "You have no choice."

 

And that, she said, is exactly what Blue Cross is eager to protect. 

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Over a barrel

Jenny Warburg, a freelance photojournalist in Durham, said she wishes she could switch insurance carriers over the issue, but no other company will cover her.

Ah, the free market at work.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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Guess which crazy Socialist wrote this

"Nor is there any reason why the state should not assist the individuals in providing for those common hazards of life against which, because of their uncertainty, few individuals can make adequate provision. Where, as in the case of sickness and accident, neither the desire to avoid such calamities nor the efforts to overcome their consequences are as a rule weakened by the provision of assistance - where, in short, we deal with genuinely insurable risks - the case for the state's helping to organize a comprehensive system of social insurance is very strong... Wherever communal action can mitigate disasters against which the individual can neither attempt to guard himself nor make the provision for the consequences, such communal action should undoubtedly be taken"

The answer: Friedrich Hayek, in The Road To Serfdom (Chapter 9).

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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Read it in context....

...and then try to reconcile it with this.

Good luck with that.

 

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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Aer you serious?

You respond to an actual quote from The Road to Serfdom, saying it doesn't agree with your comic book version of The Road to Serfdom for Dummies, so it can't possibly have any merit or be taken seriously as something Hayek actually meant. Read it in context yourself (I have), and tell me how it can possibly be taken to mean anything other than what it says plainly, that it is reasonable for a government to organize a system of health insurance.

Good luck with that.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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Is this proof

 that George Soros is correct, when he asserts that there is a complicated relationship between thinking and reality, which he has labeled reflexivity.

 Soros states that efficiency in markets is a fiction that has caused the current situation.

 The assumption that 'the market' will tend toward equilibrium is false. 

 The truth is that markets always present a distorted picture of reality. IN other words the pricing of assets, or goods, does not reflect the fundamentals of the markets. (See debt, credit )

 IF what Soros is asserting is correct, then in order to stop the looming bubble $ bust syndrome we have to change our thinking to be more in line with reality. 

 I find his analysis intriguing. I also note, that until economic thinking comes in line with reality, lobbiest will continue to have their way.  There is a real danger to our society, that lobbiests are plugging in the holes, that should be filled by the elite thinkers on the frontier of economic thought.

http://www.georgesoros.com/articles-essays/entry/do_not_ignore_the_need_...

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The market is....

...reality.

It's you, its me, why do you not trust people to choose, to retain the freedom to decide things for themselves?

George Soros is a freak of nature in economic terms.

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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Because of things like

panic, unbridled short term greed, wishful thinking and other irrational behavior that every person exhibits.  Collectively, it can be even worse, as in the Tragedy of the Commons dilemma.  Enlightened self-interest has its limits.

Libertarianism cannot account for results like this :

According to a new Gallop poll, 95% of nonsmokers, and fully 69% of smokers, think California's ban on smoking in almost all workplaces is positive.

This contradicts the standard line of smokers' rights groups and the tobacco industry which claims that such restrictions violate of the rights of smokers and cause them to restrict their purchases and use of places like restaurants and fast food outlets.

Rather than get fighting mad, many smokers think such restrictions are reasonable and even helpful as they try to quit or cut down.

Sometimes people don't want freedom to indulge bad habits.  Sometimes they rank their personal freedom as less important than doing their part for the common good.  We all have our failings, and some of us don't always want to have the temptation to indulge them.

Incidentally, that's one of the main reasons I'm a Liberal.  That and I hate the word "progressive".

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"The market" as defined

 meaning........ what exactly?

 That is the thrust of the question. The definition of markets is incorrect.

 Why is there a dichotomy in the markets, Wall Street vs Main Street? Because 'the market'  as defined today does not coincide with reality. What you 'think' of as markets is not the reality of the markets.

 The right especially has problems coming to grips with the globalization of the markets, with fear mongering that a new "the One" world order is coming, completely hiding from the reality that the markets are international. 

 If you define 'the market' as Wall Street then that is a false definition. Thus the postulation, by Soros,  that there is a gap between thinking and reality. 

 If people think the 'market' is represented by Wall Street, then their definition of 'markets' is a false value, which is based on future predictions (the value of debt/credit) vs reality.

 There needs to come a day when investment represents a value added in real market terms, not a bookie taking bets for short term gain.

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In other words....

I suggest that we need  more intellectuals not less. Intellectual elitism is good! Education is also good!

 There has been a meme around intellectualism that started some years back, that education is bad, and that educated elites are snotty maggots.

  I suggest the opposite is true. We need more education and more intellectual elites not less.

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As long as these elites

don't go around making appeals to authority all the time.  The good ones demonstrate their expertise; the bad ones use it to belitte dissenting views.

Beware of anyone who cites their degrees and experience on the net without being prompted.

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Are you reading the book, SL?

or did you just happen upon that quote?

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New Economic Thinking

   The famed George Soros, who has gained fame for making fortunes by understanding how markets really work, is going start a New Economic INstitute, to attract the best and the brightest to understanding economics. The goal is to establish a solid workable model for economics that goes beyond the old, unproductive free markets model, which brought us multiple bubbles and last years near collapse of the entire economic system.  

 For many the worry is that until and unless a better economic model comes forward, lobbiests will fill the economic void.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/219720

 

 "Does anybody know anything any more? Again, many of these debates go back to basic questions of economic wisdom. Even Adam Smith, the founder of free-market thinking, noted that banking should be treated differently than other businesses. Financial markets, constantly haunted by panics and manias, are more prone to failure and are more critical to the economy's health."

 

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I think Harry Reid should stop honoring 'holds' placed on bills

It's not a move I like but at this point you have to.  apparently the requirements & use of holds has varied widely in the last 20 years so ruling 'em out all together isn't all that radical.

Only 4 Federal Judges have been approved so far.  That is pathetic.  Pathetic that republicans would be such chickensh**s as to hold the country hostage and treating government like a petulant teenager.  Just imagine if Democrats had EVER done that during bush43, George HW &/or Reagan's era.  There isn't any excuse except 'just because' & I don't think that's worthy of our country.

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I think it's because

floor time is at a premium, and forcing Senators to hold up business would only exacerbate the problem.  Same thing with the artificial 60-vote threshold to proceed on any bills.

Now Republicans have been using this sense of urgency against Reid, simply by leveraging their nuisance value.  Reid should retaliate by forcing debate and/or votes on select few nominees or bills for which the Republicans have no real reason to block and/or are unprepared for.  Then have Pat Roberts, John Cornyn, David Vitter or some other Giant Douchebag help swing public opinion even more in the Democrats' favor, or fold and let the bill/nominee go through.

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Ya...thats proof...

George Soros....PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE!!!

Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds...~ A. Einstein

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Well, he has more money

than you :)

Soros is a ruthlessly successful currency speculator who funds liberal causes.   How exactly does that make him untrustworthy?   Most of us would have benefited from listening to him more closely

Soros' May 2008 book, The New Paradigm for Financial Markets, described a "superbubble" that had built up over the past 25 years and was ready to collapse. This was the third in a series of books he's written that have predicted disaster. As he states:

I have a record of crying wolf.... I did it first in The Alchemy of Finance (in 1987), then in The Crisis of Global Capitalism (in 1998) and now in this book. So it's three books predicting disaster. (After) the boy cried wolf three times . . . the wolf really came.
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Congressional Nerd to this post, please...

Once a bill enters "Conference" after passing the Senate and House, and the conference reports the "merged" bill out, can it then be filibustered? Or can it only be defeated by an up-or-down vote?

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

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Yes, it can be filibustered

both the original pre-conference bill and the final passage bill can be filibustered.  Lieberman can hold out until the very end unless Reid goes for reconciliation.

Interestingly, reconciliation (if it's used) comes into play after the conference report.  The best Dem arm-twisting strategy IMHO would be to have a pocket bill that satisfies the parliamentarian reconciliation-wise and is so left-leaning that only 50 senators support it.  Then you let Lieberman take his pick.

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Thanks Corph!

Reason I asked was because I figured the Dems would eventually water down the Public Option enough to get past a filibuster, then strengthen it in conference, and then reintroduce for final approval. But since it can be filibustered, I guess that avenue is closed.

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

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Not if they classify it as a reconciliation bill and it doesn't

raise taxes.  Then they can do it as a reconciliation with only 51 votes.

Sorry but I disagree.  The big kahuna is the raising taxes part & being that all the bills so far are paid for by the premiums, they technically aren't raising taxes.  51 is all it'll take.

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Since....

 I am a rank partisan hack.....  ( :-l )

I'm  having a blast reading RedState as the impure are thoroughly purged from the GOP in an effort to remake their party in the image of Sarah Palin. 

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/11/01/the-one-way-street-conservative...

 They are feasting on  their new policy of zero tolerance for moderation in any form. Wow!

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Erick the Slow

is having trouble realizing why moderate Republicans defeated in primaries end up endorsing Democrats.  In his little world, it must be spite or some other petty motive.  It doesn't occur to him that the "conservative" usually runs a disgusting divisive primary campaign, barely knows the district and ends up mindlessly spewing Club-for-Growth doctrine that far too few constituents care about.

It's funny, in retrospect, how they mocked Markos for endorsing all those real Democrats who mostly lost in 2004.  Democratic grassroots groups found better candidates who fit their districts.  Republicans are going for purity purges that end up humiliating their nominees and driving Senators to the other party.

I wish Erick all the success in the world in his endeavors.  Unfortunately he's not quite bright or self-aware enough to execute his flawed strategy that well.

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Short version

conservatives can abuse moderates freely but if moderates don't cowtow in return they are traitors!

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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That's why

there are currently no New England US house members.  Dems targeting "moderates" in CT is one thing, Rs doing it in big swing-states like PA or FL is much more dangerous, especially when their base candidate is far to the right of the voter median on salient issues.

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Erick the Red

 on Hoffman's loss in NY 23 It's a Big Win for conservatives! (!?!)

"For all intents and purposes, NY-23 is a trial run for Florida. And in Florida, the conservative candidate is operating inside the GOP. If John Cornyn and the NRSC do not want to see Florida go the way of NY-23, they better stand down."

 "So we have demonstrated to the GOP that it must not take conservatives for granted. The GOP spent $900,000.00 on a Republican who dropped out and endorsed the Democrat. Were we to combine Scozzafava and Hoffman’s votes, Hoffman would have won."

 I am wondering if pragmatism (moderation) will set in with the conservative base, or if they have boxed themselves into a corner.  

 May I say, that I hope these tea bagging conservatives continue with their campaign for purity in the GOP. They just handed the democrat in NY23 a win for the first time in 159 years!

Now that the Governors of NJ and Virginia are Republican, they will face the same challenge that Obama faces,  they will have to deliver good/better economic outcomes for their states, which means they will have to pursue policies that actually work for impatient regular people. 

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If there is a God

 Please please please!

  Grover Norquist,  is being attacked by conservatives for suggesting that the GOP support Charlie Christ in Florida!   *gasp* This is a dream come true.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/11/04/is-americans-for-tax-reform-on-...

 "I cannot believe Grover Norquist, after all he has done for the movement, could be happy with or approve of staff treating the conservative movement so contemptuously. Yet, with that much contempt — and a pledge by ATR’s Tax Policy Director to support tax hiker Charlie Crist — one must wonder where ATR stands these days. Is it with the establishment that sunk $900,000.00 into the losing bid of Dede Scozzafava, or with the conservative movement that defeated her."

 

 

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Lieberman vs Hoffman

They are really two very different things.  Supporting Lamont was win-win for the dems.  If they hadn't supported Lamont they would have gotten Lieberman, and if Lamont lost they'd still get Lieberman.  There was no chance of a GOP victory (I don't think the GOP even ran a candidate) so there was no downside except the money spent.

Very different from NY-23 where the conservative insurgency handed the dems a district they would have been hard pressed to win from Scozzafava.  The hoffman thing was a total tactical mistake from start to finish and the bloodbath on the right over it will be spectacular.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Well, it was only one seat

I believe that the important thing people are missing about NY-23 is that Hoffman was a crappy candidate.  Wet-noodle charisma ignorant on local issues and tactically cluless in dismissing Scozzafava after she dropped out.

Insurgent candidates need to have better political skills than the establishment candidates they're trying to oust, otherwise they won't be able to consolidate support beyond their doctrinaire base.  I haven't seen much of Rubio, but I'd be surprised if he's smoother than Crist.  Trying to hit Kirk from the right in Obama's home state is just plain retarded.

BTW there was an R in the CT-Sen race (Schlesinger) although as I recall he was held to single digits.  To make things even weirder, he was for getting out of Iraq.  As it turns out Lieberman won with 70% GOP support.  Lamont edged him slightly among independants.  As you point out, there was no real downside for Liberals other that making Holy Joe miffed and spiteful.  It also suggests that Lieberman is a de facto Republican in terms of his base of support.

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I'm still having a blast

(Warning: If you don't like partisanship and want deep intellectual debate, stop reading NOW! )

   I am still having a blast watching and waiting to see who wins the 'wingnut' championship for supporting Hoffman the most in NY 23.  

 

 Apparently there is a national litmus test in which you must keep your lips as close to the behind of the Beck, Palin,  Limbaugh faction of the GOP because they represent  conservative snowy white goodness and purity.

 It's most amusing to witness the states rights crowd, invade local districts on a national scale.

 How bad is it when Haley Barbour comes across as the voice of reason by suggesting that the National GOP should not meddle in local elections.

 Go Hoffman!

 

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Just One More Thing

 The most dishonest analysis belongs to the famed, so called liberal NYT and reporter Adam Nagourney

  Are people really so stupid and senile that they forget what they read one day ago?

Tuesday Nov. 3rd:

 "Worst outcome for Republicans: Losing the New York congressional race, which has showcased deep divisions between moderates and conservatives over how the party should rebuild to return to power."

Wednesday Nov. 4th:

 "The Republican victories in the races for New Jersey and Virginia governors put the party in a stronger position to turn back the political wave President Obama unleashed last year, setting the stage for Republicans to raise money, recruit candidates and ride the excitement of an energized base* as the party heads into next year’s midterm elections."

 

 Courtesy NYT reporter Adam Nagourney**

___

*that energized base are the folks at RedState that are screaming that the party elite have betrayed them

**Dear Adam N,  can you explain this seeming glaring contradiction from one day to the next

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Open comment to SwordsCrossed:

 To all the people who thought (and still think) that Obama and his Administration are so wonderful:

I told you we'd all get royally screwed by Obama and  his team, and I'm not wrong, really.  Since I didn't vote for Obama or McCain, I don't have it on my conscience, and I don't feel betrayed by him the way lots of people rightly feel, but the fact that you and so many other people here in the United States got taken with Obama's charm, his ultrafriendly and sleek, smooth manner, his big, gleaming, fruity-toothsome smile, and his mantra  "Hope, change Unity", or "Change we can Believe in", or  "Audacity of Hope", not to mention his smooth speeches that're full of pretty rhetoric of promises, I can only say this:  You're all just about as gullible as those who supported and voted for G. W. Bush twice, and/or who took such a liking to Sara Palin due to her charm and personality, and you didn't realize that you got royally screwed until it was too late.  

Obama got himself into this mess by appointing people to his cabinet who got us into the mess we're presently dealing with (do Geitner, Beranke and Summers come to mind here?  How about the others in his Administration?)  How about the fact that Obama not only escalated and extended our war on Afghanistan, but that he also appointed Stanley McChrystal, a known war criminaL, to head up this so-called mission?  I could go on, but you all get the drift of what I'm saying.

I'll add this, folks:  The Obama-right-or-wrong crowd is no different and no better than the Bush-right-or-wrong crowd.  This kind of arrogant, abrasive attitude was bound to come and bite everybody in the ass, and well it should've.  The only trouble is, however, that people like me and others who displayed a bit more sense, get it up the ass, too.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Cheery fresh news!

 We are all royally screwed.  You so told us.

Oh and Merry Christmas up your ass. Party time.

 

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Yup!!

 I sure called it like it is, missliberties.  

[remainder deleted by PF]

 

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You know what, missliberties?

You're clearly bitter as all h*ll because people are giving legitimate criticism to Obama that he deserves.  He's been wrong on many issues, and many people who worked to get him elected feel utterly betrayed by him.  The fact that Obama's continuing many, if not most of the GOP's policies, from our wars/occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, renewal of the patriot act, his pre-election vote for FiSA and war votes, his appointees of Rahm, Geitner, Summers, etc, indicates what Obama and the Democratic Party are all about, on the long run.  Given the whole history of the United States, from slavery to the Civil Rights Movement (in which people were threatened, intimidated, beat up and/or killed for standing up for equality and justice for citizens born in the USA and who'd been denied justice and equality for so long), to the Presidency, it's shameful that a guy like Barack Obama is the best that they could come up with and elected POTUS.

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That's a real nice speech

 Since we have heard this from you verbatim for over a year now, I just wonder how you think your words move your agenda forward in any sort of constructive way.

 

 

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Why, thank you, missliberties.

 You're sweetness is overwhelming!  Frankly, missliberties, I wonder how your words move an agenda.  Something tells me that you don't hae brains.

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It could be worse

Michelle Bachmann or Bobby Jindal could be POTUS, they and others really scare me.
They and others make me think there are many statewide office holders that think the only problem about the Tunisian pilot that prayed instead of flying the plane, was the pilot was trying to talk to Allah and not the Holy Spirit/Jesus/God.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/25/tunisian-plane-crash-pilot-p...

...or maybe I'm just around too many people that don't think Glenn Beck is off his rocker 90% of the time, as he is.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

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On the other hand, however,

 The Democrats, with few exceptions are far worse than the Republicans in a way, because, considering what they profess to stand for (the wellfare, wellbeing and the interests of the common people), they've certainly gone lockstep with the Republicans in pretty much everyithing, including our wars.  Hypocracy abounds within the Democratic Party, which has a long history of self-destructing.  I'm sick of it, and, if there's no viable Democratic POTUS Candidate in 2012, I'll either vote for a thirdd-party Candidate (providing there is one), or do what I did this on this last POTUS Election;  do a write-in.  I go by the quotation:  "It's better to vote one's conscience and to vote for someone who can't win than to vote for someone who can win and will betray you".

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It's Obama's own fault that he's in the situation that he's in.

 He started playing with fire well before his election into office, as his war votes and his vote for FISA, not to mention his shady dealings with Tony Rezko indicate.  If people are gullible enough or willfuilly ignorant enough to vote hypocritical phonies like this into office and and then end up getting screwed as a consequence, they deserve what they get.  The only trouble is, however, is that I, and other people who see through the BS and refuse to vote for such hypocrtites and phonies get it too.

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