Weekend Open Thread
Hey all. Unfortunately the company that hosts our site had their server crash and lost some data - which means they had to restore from backup and some comments were lost (looks like pretty much the whole day yesterday). Hopefully this won't happen again. I have to run out, but will be back later. Hope you are all having a wonderful weekend!
This is an Open Thread.
Submitted by Ender on Sat, 2007-03-10 11:41
Tags:

Comments :
More progress in Iraq
Link
qui tacet consentire
You mean
all that narcissistic talk about myself at Dkos was erased?
I think the admission of the abuse of the PATRIOT Act necessitates the need to review the program including how it is used, what benefits have come from it, and if it is still needed.
This should also raise alarms regarding the NSA spying program. Why are we supposed to expect this program is not being abuse (illegal as it is) also?
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
the "abuse" of the Patriot Act
looks like some minor stuff and I would prefer expansion of that program to be honest. Nothing is perfect but it certainly helps.
As an example, just because some soldiers shot a few civilians on purpose in WW2 (or in any other war) doesn't mean we should just call the war off. Try to correct the problem and continue.
Seems like some on the left want us to stop the war on islamofascism altogether and will use any excuse to put up roadblocks.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
What is major for you?
Let's see. Ender's list of minor incidents perpetrated by Bush:
illegal NSA spying
torture
kidnapping to torture (extraordinary rendition)
changing the rules of habeas corpus
outing CIA agents
FBI spying
creating more terrorists
lying to get us into a war
congressional corruption
bungling the aftermath of Katrina
losing a war
no-bid contracts going to double charging cronies
(plenty of more, but you get the idea)
Major incidents perpetrated by Bush:
Major incidents perpetrated by other presidents:
blowjob
Do you see why I can't take you seriously?
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
let's go through your list
1. good idea to do and was never determined to be illegal
2. happens on a regular basis anyways and not morally wrong imo
3. see #2
4. not for US citizens, minor
5. not a person truly undercover
6. FBI should do more spying
7. that's your opinion
8. that's your opinion - exaggerating is more like it
9. not good but following in dem footsteps from when they were in power
10. bungled by the incompetent feds and local/state govts
11. not minor but certainly not lost, I don't agree with lib characterization
12. corruption sucks
mostly minor or necessary, some not so minor.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
So you think
subservience to the state is a good thing then.
I'm only half stupid
that doesn't make sense... n/t
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
You excuse almost
every overreach of power this administration has used as being necessary to "fighting evil" or the global war on terrorism.
This is ceding authority to the state, giving the President undue power and is a form of centralizing government and its powers in the hands of a few.
It is contrary to all the traditions of our constitution.
The worst example is the recent "firings" of the state prosecuters. A undisguised and arrogant power grab for purely partisan reasons. If you can't see that than you are blind.
I'm only half stupid
bs
I find that all those things are powers that President already has and should have. It's contrary to nothing and certainly not contrary to our constitution. Just because liberals are screaming and whining about something, doesn't mean it's true.
It's not that Bush overreached, I don't think Bush has done enough.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Not bs
What sets this country apart from others is a clear and distinct separation of powers.
The President is not the sole arbitrater of power in THIS country. There is a reason for checks and balances. And this President and his consigliere's in power are about to get Checked Hard.
You might not agree, but you are in a smaller and smaller minority and in THIS country the majority rules.
I predict you will soon be one cranky guy.
Alberto Gonazles, Bush's enabling lawyer is becoming more and more unpopular, the more LAWS of this country that he breaks. IN THIS country you don't get to repreatedly keep taking the law into your own hands.
And in fact there is a growing concensus that Alberto Gonazles should resign his position as attorney general. I agree.
I'm only half stupid
It is replies
like this that give people the idea that you prefer an authoritarian type government.
Did you not see that the FBI was spying on citizens (in other words, your analogy is bs because it has nothing to do with the enemy)?
I have one question and I want you to answer it honestly: Would you still agree with these abuses/practices if Hillary (or Bill) was in office?
BTW, an intelligence report
said we are creating more terrorists
in Iraq (#7). The rest, only time will tell, but they are more than my opinion. Keep living in your delusional world.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
Wow Ender, are you sure you aren't a spoof of a Conservative?
1) False
It was found to be illegal and the administration has tried to moot the issue to avoid having a higher court rule on it. ( Now's the time you point out that it was found illegal, but not by someone you trust, which would include nobody as even SCOTUS would be wrong in your head of they made this judgement)
5) The CIA says otherwise AND HER STATUS WAS CLASSIFIED REGARDLESS!!!! I thought you said you had a clearance while in the reserves!?! You clearly have no understanding of the regulations on protecting classified information.
I actually had responses on all 12, but since you referred to my girlfriend of two years as being a legitimate target for kidnapping and torture with no legal recourse at the whim of the President, 2-4 had some bannable language. I'm sure you can work it out on your own. (Though considering your being wrong and so many of your statements of "fact", that may be wishful thinking)
I agree with your thoughts
especially on 2-4. I agree with your sentiment there entirely!!! :+)
I'm only half stupid
Oh man ...
All those beautiful retorts I showered on the liberals yesterday where I completely decimated their pitiful attempts at logic and persuasion are gone?!?!?
Well I'm not typing them in again. Just consider yourselves decimated. You know who you are!
:-)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Yes
Your writing yesterday brought about a life changing epiphany for me yesterday. And then when I went back to reflect on it, and it was gone.
I guess we have to start back at square one.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
I was ready
to repent and change my registration to Republican.
And then, when it got erased, I assumed it was a sign from God that I should remain a Democrat.
I can't very well go against God's will.
qui tacet consentire
Yes I too was enlightened
by your hatred of the left. Feeling so unpopular I almost thought about changing my voter registration.
I figured the site going down was in fact I sign from God.
Thankfully I am still proudly liberal.
I'm only half stupid
I too was almost converted.
But I also went back for reinforcement today, but alas, it isn't there.
Guess I'm stuck being a liberal.
Thank God for Nancy Pelosi. I sure wish Reid would grow a couple.
At least Nancy's OK ...
http://www.swordscrossed.org/node/1035#comment-43974
Given David Obey's online meltdown yesterday, I guess my assumptions about his being more intelligent that average were premature.
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/streiff/2007/mar/09/david_obey_is_a_patien...
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4no wonder Obey
blew up... If I had moron constituent (and liars too
) such as those, I would not have been as nice as he was.
No wonder Dem congressmen are in such a quandary - the far left is a bunch of lying hippy lunatics and they are bugging them to no end. Hope they understand that those are just the fringe and they don't need to suck up to the "withdraw now" crowd.
Speaking of which - on my way from the mall today I saw about 25-30 people on the side of the road with signs like "Bring the troops home" and "Honk for peace". They also looked like hippies and freaks (mostly... maybe some kossacks there) and I wanted to flip them the bird but then just drove by.
My cousin, who is visiting from Russia and was in the car, asked me what their problem was and I filled her in on our anti-war left.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Republicans are the stupid ones
They keeping putting out that the idea "Why don't the dems do something to stop the war and defund it?"
Are you Republicans so stupid that you don't understand that the Dems DO NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO DEFUND THE WAR. Stupidity everywhere.
The Obey tape shows dems are NOT stupid! We don't have the votes.
Are Republicans so stupid that they don't realize that while Bush is hysterically focused on about Iraq.......
China is winning the game, America taught them how to play... the game of commerce.
I'm only half stupid
Joseph Stalin
allegedly said: "When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use." Of course Stalin wasn't as bright as the Chinese who figured that buying the rope from the capitalists involves paying for it so they will rather have us foot the bill.
Sic semper tyrannis
You are full of it.
You make it sound as if he is pro-Iraq war. That's BS. He is mad as hell that his hands are tied as far as the only power that congress has is to defund the war. He is not willing to do that. Why? Not because he supports the war, but because he refuses to send our boys into battle underfunded, without armor, and without the necessary medical help when they come back injured.
Transcript
:
I hate the war. I voted against it to start with. I was the first guy in Congress to call for Rumsfeld’s resignation, but we don’t have the votes to defund the war we shouldn’t because that also means defunding everything in that bill to help the guys who are the victims of war.
The only quandary we are in is how to get out of this war without hurting the troops at the same time. That is a far cry from being against the 'dirty hippies'. Nice ad hominem by the way. What's next? Anti-war people are all commies. Sheez. Get some real arguments. You sound absurd.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
dude
you get offended a bit too easily - it's not like I implied that most anti-war people were commies or hippies. I was only talking about the far left and none of you here qualify. I am talking about the crazy fringe. We got a crazy fringe too.
So no need to get your panties in a bunch ;)
As for Obey, of course I know he is anti-war. But he is a smart man hassled by lying idiots. Why did no one at dkos notice that the woman blatantly changed her story? After the Cindy Sheehan fiasco, just mention the words "soldier's or marine's mom" and no fact checking need take place.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Not! I agree with Specter
The broadstroke character assassination of anyone with whom you disagree, and summarily labeling them as "the anti-war left", socialists, defeatists, muslem sympathizers, traitors, or whatever the popular slander of the day is has gone way too far.
Specter is not being oversenseitive at all. We have good reason to be offended.
He is just reacting to the non-stop character assasination your side gleefully employs.
This is why Barack Obama will not go on Fox News (breaking candidate went to madrasas school-------a complete fricking bald faced LIE)(breaking-----John Edwards is a fag)(breaking John Kerry does not deserve his war medals)(breaking Joe Wilson guilty in Libby trail)
It is way past time for other than conservatives to stand up to those who employ smear and slander as their political position, and tell you people to shut up, wake up and get over your false sense of entitlement and superiority. You don't hold a monopoly on the truth. No one does.
There is an insunuated and underlying lack of respect of differering views, and more broadly of differing cultures.
It is conservatives who are delusional, feel good, idealistic fools. We have already lost the war in Iraq. Now we just have to try and piece together the low benchmark of mere stability, pretend like that is a victory and get out.
I'm only half stupid
let me just add that
I hate anti-war activists (and leftwing pacifists in general) with a passion, though not to be confused with regular anti-war liberals, which is why I will never ever be on their side.
I will oppose stupid wars though.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Your disagreement
with the demonstrators makes me suspect that their idea of what constitutes a "stupid war" might be at least slightly different than yours.
Sic semper tyrannis
By stupid wars
Ender means ones that take place during a Democratic Presidency
frankly the demonstrators
are all the same type of people who if I agreed on something, I would look for a way not to. They are those "stupid liberals" that Obey referred to :)
I really don't like protesters in general - most of them are far left wing hippies who hate everyone who is not a marxist lesbian and doesn't support complete redistribution of wealth from the bloodsuckers to the proletariat. Mostly unemployed too since they have plenty of time for protests.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
in general
if it weren't for the people who challenge the authority, we'd all be peasants working pharaoh's fields with wooden sticks.
Sic semper tyrannis
in general that's true
in American reality that is not how things are done.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
If it weren't
how the things are done in this country we'd be living in The United Colonies of America and instead of the dead presidents we'd have a picture of a currently ruling monarch on our currency. Any social or political progress in this country ("regression" in conservative speak :) was won by challenging the ruling elite's power and taking the rights which truly belong to "We the People".
Sic semper tyrannis
You don't get out much, do you?
Demonstrations these days are populated by soccer moms and NASCAR dads.
Of course, there are still enough hippie chicks that -- if you played your cards right and held up a funny anti-Bush sign -- you might get lucky.
qui tacet consentire
Anti-Bush
sign. Now, isn't that ironic...
Sic semper tyrannis
I like Bush
But hate George W. would be a good one don't ya think?
It would be
PC enough to find acceptance I suppose...
Sic semper tyrannis
I am a bit too turned
off by their unwashedness to go for those hippie chicks. And trust me, those protesters that I saw today (or the ones I see on TV) were very far away from being soccer moms or NASCAR dads - unless NASCAR dads look like 60 year old hippies with ratty clothing and soccer moms like their wives.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
You do realize it is the 21st Century
the stereotypes you describe are so yesterday.
That is why conservativism is so dangerous. They continue to dwell in the past and hold on to long forgotten traditions.
The "hippies" have moved on. Shouldn't you.
I'm only half stupid
I don't know
but I still see the hippies that haven't moved on. Some got really old and some are young but copying their predecessors.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
You could be right
If the men lacked such articles of fine apparel as baseball hats and women didn't carry the contents of a magnum size can of hair spray in their hair they must have been dirty old hippies.
Sic semper tyrannis
kind of like the unwashedness
of African Americans.
No I don't think that is an accident.
It is a very subtle version of the Souther Strategy.
I'm only half stupid
Sadly there are protesters around the world
The world populace seems agitated right now.
Protests in So. Korea, farmers against trade.
Protests in So. America.
Protests are not a good sign for those in power. It significes malcontent on the part of the people. It is hard to rule your subjects when they are acting out.
I'm only half stupid
malcontents is right
but you probably meant discontent. Why should we care aboutthe world populace? :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
malcontent
is what I meant........ as in dissatisfied and rebellious, or willing to make trouble.
I'm only half stupid
Let me also add
that I don't suffer fools gladly.
Hate is for fools who turn into that which they most fear.... black hearted homosapiens.
I'm only half stupid
the server keeps acting up
it's really annoying how bad the response time is. Sorry everyone.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Have you seen this?
http://www.swordscrossed.com/
Learn to secure your shit.
Don't know if it is related...... but these guys are hackers.
The only way I could get to the site was to replace my old bookmark, and access the site thru google.
I'm only half stupid
Oh,
to be like in 4th grade again :)
Sic semper tyrannis
it's not related
but pretty funny...
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Why isn't Rove in prison?
Especially after this BS:
Link
qui tacet consentire
Actually, why aren't the Democrats howling
for Armitage's head? After all, the "leaking" of Plame was the worst kind of offense there ever, ever was.
Why is it that now that we KNOW he is the leaker that no one cares anymore about actually prosecuting someone for the actual supposed crime?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Perverse INtellectually Dishonest Excuses
Delusional fantasies that Hitler in Fact was a "liberal"!
Ten Reasons Why Hitler Was Liberal
Cynical use of nationalism
Racism
Similar power seizure tactics
Similar demographic target voter
Contempt for innocent life
Re-invention of morality and human nature
Belief in creating a utopia
Use of monitoring, gulags and slave labour
Political narrative casting one group as the source of all evil
Desire to disarm and dominate the people
Hindraker's Wisdoom
on why South American's think BushisHitler.
South America is trending strongly left, or socialist.
Hitler was a left leaning liberal socialist.
Therefore socialism is fascism.
Wow! Go figure!
I guess Hinderacker has all the answers. The world is trending socialist fascist communist. Is there any place left to hide.....?
Is he saying that neoconservatism is the only place where true freedom and purity of ideology dwells.
Is Bush a dangerous liberal (as was Hitler) as South Americans are suggesting with their protests?
Isn't this Exactly what Dinesh D'Souza was saying in his book. . ."Enemy of the State, and how the liberals caused 9/11. I didn't realize that D'Souza hated liberal Bush so much, did you.
I'm only half stupid
You have it backwards.
It is not that Hitler or Stalin were liberal, it is that Hitler and Stalin are the inspiration for so many Liberal tactics. Saddam admitred them too, as I understand.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Democrats invoke the name of Hitler more often than the skin heads and the neo-nazi's do.
I like your list, actually, it is right on the mark, Do you mind if I copy it for future use?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Don't forget
the fact that Hitler was a vegetarian, a dog lover, and never could refuse to hug a plump, blond haired, blue eyed, pure aryan baby. Also his social programs far exceeded anything that FDR could have ever dreamed of pushing through the Congress. It's really surprising that the republicans while dismantling all that commie FDR crap never rationalized their actions as the anti-nazi measures...
But, alas, with the almost, but not quite unlike the degree of reverence that neo-nazis express, when mentioning the name of the beloved fuehrer.
Sic semper tyrannis
Free country
Copy to your hearts delight.
I also provided a link that has a deeper explanation of the bullet points
It is so convincing that you can use it for your new talking points.
It should go over well.
I'm only half stupid
Churchills Thoughts on Jews and Persecution
The Greatest Brit wrote in the 1937 paper on
How the Jews Can Combat Persecution
Wow! This will stir up a few malcontents.
I'm only half stupid
From the mouths of babes...
General Eaton: "Republican congress the worst thing that's happened to the US Army and the Marine Corp"
.
Friday night on Real Time, Bill Maher interviewed retired Army Major General Paul D. Eaton who was the original Commander in charge of training Iraqi troops. He blames Donald Rumsfeld for the majority of the failures in Iraq (including the current problems at Walter Reed).
General Eaton will be labeled a socialist
by the liberal hawks..... the neocons.
God they must be frothing at the mouth these days.
All this reality to deny.
I'm only half stupid
Actually, now that he's gone ...
we might as well pile on Rumsfeld and use him like a scapegoat. It is a perfect plan because the Liberals have been harping on it for so long that they would look stupid trying to make us out to be wrong about his being the primary problem all along ...
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4The NYT comes through
Finally
The Failed Attorney General
The Events of Last Week have underscored a widespread abuse of power, from Libby, to firing Attorney Generals, to sweeping use of the FBI.
I am going to paste most of the article here, since I know some won't be able to access it.
__________________________________________________________
"During the hearing on his nomination as attorney general, Alberto Gonzales said he understood the difference between the job he held — President Bush’s in-house lawyer — and the job he wanted, which was to represent all Americans as their chief law enforcement officer and a key defender of the Constitution. Two years later, it is obvious Mr. Gonzales does not have a clue about the difference."
"He has never stopped being consigliere to Mr. Bush’s imperial presidency. If anyone, outside Mr. Bush’s rapidly shrinking circle of enablers, still had doubts about that, the events of last week should have erased them."
"First, there was Mr. Gonzales’s lame op-ed article in USA Today trying to defend the obviously politically motivated firing of eight United States attorneys, which he dismissed as an “overblown personnel matter.” Then his inspector general exposed the way the Federal Bureau of Investigation has been abusing yet another unnecessary new power that Mr. Gonzales helped wring out of the Republican-dominated Congress in the name of fighting terrorism."
"The Justice Department has been shamefully indifferent to complaints of voter suppression aimed at minority voters. But it has managed to find the time to sue a group of black political leaders in Mississippi for discriminating against white voters."
"We opposed Mr. Gonzales’s nomination as attorney general. His résumé was weak, centered around producing legal briefs for Mr. Bush that assured him that the law said what he wanted it to say. More than anyone in the administration, except perhaps Vice President Dick Cheney, Mr. Gonzales symbolizes Mr. Bush’s disdain for the separation of powers, civil liberties and the rule of law.
On Thursday, Senator Arlen Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, hinted very obliquely that perhaps Mr. Gonzales’s time was up. We’re not going to be oblique. Mr. Bush should dismiss Mr. Gonzales and finally appoint an attorney general who will use the job to enforce the law and defend the Constitution."
___________________________________________________
Political pressure continues to push back against the chronic abuse of power employed by this administration that has taken Texas style politics to the White House.
I'm only half stupid
I just saw this via Crooks & Liars,
It's a link to Yahoo News titled: Democratic senators say Gonzales should go
.
They aren't alone:
"In addition, a key Republican voiced concerns about Gonzales and his embattled Justice Department...at a Senate meeting last week, Specter said, "one day there will be a new attorney general, maybe sooner rather than later."...Congressional hearings are also planned into a report last week by the Justice Department's inspector general that the FBI illegally or improperly obtained private records during terrorism and espionage investigations."
Bushco is going to so hate Dems having investagative power.
First, they'll impeach Alberto, then Cheney. I'd be very happy with that outcome.
Ouch! That's gotta hurt...Joshua from TPM has a nice summary
.
Thx!
I'm only half stupid
hehe
Maryscott O'Connor is on John Gibson's radio show - bashing Kos himself :) cozying up to one of my favorite rightwingers from Fox News!
Check this out!!!
http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/iblog/C168863457/E20070310114235/index.html
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
idiot liberals.
ungrateful wench.
I'm only half stupid
ugh
that's some harsh words! You don't think she has any good points?
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Yes I do
I think she is a very very kind sensitive woman, whose sensibilities are easily offended.
I am sure she would make a fabulous and loyal friend.
But Gibson representing her as a spokesman for the left blogosphere I realistically worry that ala faux, the ugly unkind pundints will take her out of context and twist her words and her views in the wind...... much the same way you do.
I'm only half stupid
wow
I am not sure she is all that "kind" but she is definitely sensitive and vindictive. The vindictive part does not go well with being "loyal". She trashed Kos pretty badly. Of course she does not need to be loyal to him, but then again she's been trashing him from way before he removed her blog from his blogroll.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Even worse
She probably cares about the Amazon Forest in Brazil.
She might even support Hugo Chavez.
So why you would waste any time caring about what she thinks is beyond me.
Unless it serves your own partisan interests of trashing a grassroots activist with influence.
You and MaryScott have something in common. You both hate Markos. Isn't that special.
I'm only half stupid
Do you side with her
Most think she's farther to the left of Kos, so it is amusing to hear you sing her praises.
Is it just the power Kos has that you dislike? Or his views? If you are enjoying MSOC, it sounds like the former.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
why would I side with her?
of course she is farther than Kos. I am not singing her praises, I do not like her. I do enjoy liberals bashing other liberals. She is further left than him but he is a liberal (only a leftist would call kos "centrist") as well.
I am sure you guys like conservatives bashing other conservatives - anytime anyone catches that happening, we immediately get links to it. Whether it's Hagel or redstate :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR