Tuesday Open Thread

There is a boring story out there about the lethal injection drugs not allways working the way they are intended to work - causing the people being executed pain. This is the latest effort by the anti-death penalty left wingers to try to alter our justice system. Somehow I doubt that many people care whether murderers being executed feel some pain on the way. Personally I hope they do. It is also amusing that on a lefty site like MSNBC the live vote (that usually goes in the liberal direction) with the question:

" In light of this review's findings that execution drugs don't always work as they're supposed to, do you think lethal injections should be banned?"

1. Absolutely. Lethal injections constitute cruel and unusual punishment. 24%
2. No. Capital punishment shouldn't have to be guaranteed to be pain-free. 71%
3. I'm not sure. 4.6%

I think lethal injection is too nice of a method. Bring the electric chair back!

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huh

the font changed for some reason... wonder what happened.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

…………

CNN poll is even more lopsided

Do you think lethal injection is an acceptable way to execute someone?

Yes: 78%

No: 22%

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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I may not be representative of liberals.

I think there are certain crimes which do deserve the death penalty. I would prefer that handing down such a verdict wasn't something that only happens to the poor or to minorities. Currently, they are the lions share of who gets the ultimate sentence.

Having said that, it is something that I feel should be accomplished without fanfare (no public hangings) or vengeance. It should be done in as quick and painless a procedure as possible. Now, that's as painless, not pain free. I expect any death involves some pain and don't think we could limit ourselves to pain free. Frankly, I support lethal injection, but I'd also support hanging.

Here's a quandrum: Why is it that so many people who want to eliminate abortion, support the death penalty? The Pope says the death penalty is wrong. What's the difference? And before anyone quotes the Bible, be warned, I can also tell you where the Bible says it's not OK to eat cheeseburgers, prawns, lobster or crab, plant fields with two kinds of crops & own slaves. The Bible isn't a good device to back up your argument when you are only going to pick & choose what you like in it. Kind of destroys using it as a reference.

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it's not that complicated

First of all most people who are pro-life are not catholic and don't have to listen to the Pope.

Second there is nothing in the Bible against Death Penalty. (not that I care)

Third it's logical to oppose abortion and support death penalty. In the case of abortion you are killing an innocent life while with the death penalty you are eliminating an extremely guilty one. Most people don't believe innocent life is equal to that of a murderer.

So even those who use the Bible are not pick and choosing on this one. Btw the Catholic Church believes that abortion is a grave sin while Death Penalty is just something they oppose as policy but is not a grave sin. So not the same even in their tradition.

Death Penalty is a morally appropriate punishment for certain horrible crimes.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Your facts aren't facts.

Most people who oppose abortion....you are wrong #1. Wiki lists the breakdown of US population as : Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, other 10%, none 10%, Jewish 1%. Most protestants do indeed support a woman being allowed to make her own choice. So, if you try to look at the percentage of Evangelical Protestants who don't support it, that # is far lower than the Catholics out there.

Bible & Death Penalty - You are correct, except the Bible does in fact allow for the death penalty. The Bible, however, says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about abortion. The Torah (the old testament) says that the fetus is ensouled upon quickening (when you can feel it kicking & moving around).

Third - HUH?!? you use no logic what so ever in proclaiming that opposing abortion supports the death penalty.

And all that after I said I agreed that the Death Penalty is sometimes an appropriate penalty.

You gotta learn how to read Ender.

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I don't understand what you are responding to

Yes there is a lot more protestants out there, and the amount of protestants who are pro-life is a lot larger than the amount of catholics... That can happen even with most protestants being pro-choice.

You say "except the Bible does in fact allow for the death penalty"... umm well yeah I just said that there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits the death penalty so it's not like you are contradicting me.

In the Bible God says "before you were born, I knew you" - which is a very clear meaning that all humans have souls from conception in the eyes of God and is the main reason why both jewish and christian traditions believe that abortion is killing a human. So you are wrong again because this is apart from quickening or whatever.

I didnt proclaim that opposing abortion supports the death penalty... Where did you get that? Quote? I simply said it makes sense to oppose killing innocent life (abortion) while supporting killing guilty life (death penalty). Logic? Heard of it? The two views are not inconsistent if you don't believe that all lives have the same right to life regardless of their actions.

And then you actually have the temerity to tell me to learn how to read.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Y'all are a little shaky on the Bible.

First, the Bible only has one quote that deals directly with terminated pregnancy. In this case, if you hit a pregnant woman and cause a miscarriage:

Exodus 21: 22 If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman’s husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award.

Keep in mind this is the same book that otherwise maintains a strong "eye for an eye" logic to its punishments. So there you go: terminate a pregnancy, pay a fine. It's not considered murder.

Second, this is all Old Testament Covenant Code, which everyone cherrypicks anyway. For Christians who use the New Testament:

1. It says nothing pro or con on the abortion issue
2. It contains passages that could very much be used against the death penalty, but nothing in favor of it (except by egregious misreading, of which I found one sad attempt)

Which makes Christian stances even more bizarre, quite frankly.

And I'm not a Christian, nor do I think our laws require Biblical foundations, thank God.

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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Count me as another pro-death penalty liberal

As former Alabama Attorney General Charlie Graddick once said (when he thought there were no reporters in the room) -- "Fry 'em till their eyes pop out."

That was back when Alabama had Yellow Mama, the nickname for our oak electric chair at the state prison in Atmore. Yellow Mama, so-called because it was painted yellow, has since been retired in favor of lethal injection.

There is no such thing as a foolproof method of execution. Lethal injection is probably the least prone to problems.

So I basically have no problem with putting murderers to sleep.

What I do have a problem with is a system that is stacked against poor defendants. It needs to be changed.

Here is how I would change it in a state like Alabama:

1. Require that no county may impose the death penalty in a murder case unless it is certified by the state. To be certified, a county must have at least three private criminal attorneys who attend and pass a state-run course on defending death penalty cases. The county must also use only prosecutors who have attended state-run courses on handling death-penalty cases.

2. The county must be certified as being racially neutral in the administration of justice. Any county that has a record of racially discriminatory sentencing will not be permitted to impose the death penalty.

3. The state must establish and fund an office to assist local defense attorneys in defending death penalty cases by providing resources for things like DNA testing, expert witness testimony, investigators, etc. This would actually speed the appeals process because a lot of the issues that come up in death penalty appeals are because of incompetent or inadequate defense counsel at trial.

4. Establish an office within the governor's office that audits death penalty cases. The attorney general would be prohibited from defending death penalties on appeal if this office does not certify that the penalty was imposed without racial or other prejudice. This office would also have the authority to investigate county prosecutors accused of prejudicial imposition of the death penalty and remove them from office.

qui tacet consentire

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foolproof

There is no such thing as a foolproof method of execution. Lethal injection is probably the least prone to problems.

The guillotine always seemed to work.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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The question is: Why execute people at all?

A society that wishes to become civilized does not solve the problem(s) of crime by putting the perpetrators of heinous criimes to death. How can one say that it's against the law to go out and kill people when the state has the power to go and do just that? It doesn't make sense. To quote an old adverb( I forget who said it), but it's true) "No true justice can be served when the law itself becomes a killer."

Secondly, the death penalty, regardless of how it's performed, is all to often used as yet another discriiminatory tool against poor people and people of color.

Thirdly, too many innocent people are killed, and the person who really committed the crime(s) are found later and end up getting off scott-free.

Many years ago, a minister down in Texas wrote a very poignant argument
against the death penalty, which I tend to agree with, still, to this day.

First of all, the death penalty creates yet a whole other set of victims: Even people who're executed for these kind of heinous crimes have friends and/or loved ones who grieve for them when they're gone. Secondly, it has been found that in prisons, especially inmates who've had to dig the grave(s) of the executed or whatever end up behaving much, much worse, because it has a profoundly negative affect on an already-explosive atmosphere that pervades in many, if not most jails/penetentiaries here in the United States. Fourth, many priests and ministers, for example, who've presided over the funerals, burials and/or memorials and services of criminals who've been executed have become so profoundly depressed that they've felt compelled to leave their calling....and quit the religious life altogether.

Back in the early 1990's, here in the Bay State, two men in their early twenties abducted a ten-year-old boy, drove him an hour north to a neighborning state near the Massachusetts border, sexually abused, and brutally murdered him. The father of the deceased 10-year-old boy embarked on a long, drawn-out and bitter campaign to get the death penalty restored here in the Bay State. As a result of this protracted, bitter campaign on the part of the young boy's father, the Bay State came one vote shy of restoring the death penalty.

Not long thereafter, however, this same father, realizing the fallability of the criminal justice system made sort of an about-face--and began a campaign
against the death penalty, even going as far as writing to several out-of-state governors imploring them to spare their death-row inmates.

I believe that a person who has the guts to change one's mind in that way deserves some respect .

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The method...

...isn't really the point as far as I'm concerned. The issue is that the justice system is far too flawed. Unless and until the system is vastly improved I cannot support a death penalty.

Especially when it's pretty well established that the death penalty has little or no deterrence value.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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mhmmm

Justice system is not primarily about deterrence. It is about meting out justice - proper punishment - for crimes. That's the whole point of justice. So obviously some crimes deserve the death penalty as the proper punishment. I doubt too many murderers really care one way or the other what the punishment is, but we as a civilized society should reward such acts with proper repercussions.

Any justice system is flawed but ours is a lot better than most others. If we waited until humanity perfected itself before we punished anyone, we'd wait forever. That should not prevent us from punishing those who deserve it and we are doing a fine job.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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One of the primary

arguments in favor of the death penalty is its supposed deterrence value -- glad we got that off the table.

The issue with the inevitable flaws in the justice system as applies to the death penalty is that mistakes can't be corrected. As can be seen from the numerous convictions reversed due to DNA testing, mistakes (even deliberate wrongdoing) happen all too often.

I don't understand conservatives who don't trust the government to deliver the mail but are perfectly content to give the state the power to execute.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Touche!

and that's a swish..... and a Score!

" don't understand conservatives who don't trust the government to deliver the mail but are perfectly content to give the state the power to execute."

Nicely done.

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Hehe

Thanks, I look forward to Ender conceding the point =)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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we have a different understanding

of Government function. The proper original Constitutional understanding of government was the Judiciary and the Military. I support those two proper original functions. Everything else you guys piled on in your drive to socialism has nothing to do with the original intent. :)

There is nothing to concede. I want our government to protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic. You want our government to also feed, clothe, house, heal, etc. I don't care for your extra functions and there is nothing inconsistent in my argument because I simply like my government one way.

It has nothing to do with trust - I just don't want government taking over functions that should be left to individual human beings and personal responsibility.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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fair enough

but you must admit the general conservative characterization of government-run programs as inefficient and incompetent hardly inspires confidence that they are somehow doing a stellar job of executing only the most deserving criminals. And with capital punishment, I'm not willing to tolerate errors that might be acceptable when it comes to things like the mail -- it's ok if my letter comes a day late, it's not ok if the wrong guy gets the chair.

Suppose in any given death penalty case there is a 99% chance that the accused deserves the death penalty. We've had approximately 1000 executions over the last 30 years, so the probability that every single one of those executions was proper is 0.99^1000 = 0%. With a 99.9% certainty per execution, the probability that every single execution was proper is still only 37%. How likely is it that we're 99.9% correct in our executions? Well, ~5% of capital convictions have been overturned with an outright acquittal (numbers from here ).

This does not inspire confidence that we are carrying out executions in a just and equitable manner.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Thank you, Ender!

Once again, you raise the specter of "personal responsibility."

Just two weeks ago, you were excusing Imus' inanity.

Your inconsistency on this concept is humorous.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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you confused personal responsibility

with a left wing witchhunt... Not quite the same, but keep trying :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Nope.

I love how you believe in the free market.

Except when you don't.

Ayn Rand would laugh at your picking and choosing.

Pathetic.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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there is nothing free market about

the Left and race baiting Sharpton/Jackson tag team scaring the bejeezus out of Imus backers.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Bullsh**.

I didn't hear you squealing in horror about the Swift Boat Veterans for truth lying about Kerry's Vietnam record.

Your hypocrisy is embarrassing.

But not surprising.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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Kerry was a presidential candidate

and had no business backers advertising on his ass. He was fair game and no one got intimidated into not supporting him. So you think throwing different unrelated concepts together will somehow impress me?

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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C'mon.

How hypocritical.

And you ignore the salient fact that you conceded in our last discussion of Imus that the free market isn't perfect. Sharpton, Jackson and, of course, Imus and the advertisers are all players in the free market.

And the real truth is that had Imus not said the stupid things he did (i.e. the "personal responsibility" which you ignore), he'd still be working today.

You want to whine about those calling out Imus yet you cheerleaded the liars from the Swift Boat group.

Your standards are all over the map.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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Could you show me...

...where exactly in the free market handbook it says it is okay for advertisers to back out in one case and not in another?

Cause you know I can't find it, even using the index.

rather all I find is that according to free market principles there are supposed to be absolutely no limits on the right to contract.

in other words the advertisers can back out for any reasone they like and be completely in line with free market principles.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Not when it comes to loudmouthed coloreds.

That's Ender's point.

It's okay for loudmouthed whites like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to spout their nonsense, but it's not okay for loudmouthed blacks like Sharpton and Jackson to do what they do.

Talk about racist...

Ender is showing us more of himself than he may think he is.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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that's some

wild conjectures and accusations. Can you be any more offensive? Sharpton and Jackson race-baited their entire lives with Sharpton destroying innocent lives, encouraging riots, and being indirectly responsible for murder.

SBVTs were partisan attackers on a presidential candidate who is fair game.

To compare the two in order to call me a racist is kinda sad.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Whatever.

Your inconsistency in applying your oft-stated belief in "personal responsibility" is obvious and embarrassing.

You should quit preaching about it until you are willing to apply it equally.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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mindreading (nt)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Speaking of "personal responsibility"...

... how long before President Numbnutz and the Dark Lord admit their adventure in Iraq and the phony "surge strategy" are nothing but further promotion of killing fields in order to cover up their own insane policies and incompetencies?

Will that chicken sh** George Bush ever take responsibility for any of the truly stupid sh** that has happened under his watch?

What about phony tough guy, Dick Cheney?

These two idiots will go down in history as the worst Executive branch ever.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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I don't care about deterrence

I just want murderers killed. Nothing complicated about that. I want justice done and proper punishment carried out.

It's government's proper job to oversee the justice system but that is not the same as meddling in innocent people's lives and reducing their freedoms.

So yeah, I certainly don't mind our government, through our jury system, executing those who deserve it. I think we don't execute enough. Mistakes will always happen. Work on getting it right with DNA evidence, etc, but keep the system the way it is.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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But very few murders

result in application of the death penalty. There is discretion as to when the death penalty is sought, there is inequality in legal representation (not everyone can afford the best lawyers), there may be bias in police work (e.g., see cases detailed at the Innocence Project), there may be bias on the part of jurors.

I understand what you're saying but the system we have now is not the system you are describing. There's no guarantee that we are executing "those who deserve it" -- rather, we seem to be executing a particular subset of criminals based on inconsistent and potentially biased criteria. Heck, sometimes even the criminal part is debatable; see, e.g., Cory Maye.

There is a principled case for capital punishment. There is no principled case for our current implementation of capital punishment.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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we are trying to execute for

the more egregious of 1st degree murders. In principle those are the people most deserving of execution. I am not sure what is inconsistent about that.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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In theory that's correct

In practice, your statement is simply counter-factual. Again, look at Cory Maye and tell me how his case falls under "the most egregious of 1st degree murders." He was sentenced to death because (1) he shot a cop (2) he had an incompetent lawyer and (3) the prosecution lied. There's simply no other way to characterize what happened. And that's leaving race out of it entirely, which is probably naive.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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But the coloreds deserve to die at a higher rate than whites.

Just because.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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Really?

we are trying to execute for the more egregious of 1st degree murders. In principle those are the people most deserving of execution. I am not sure what is inconsistent about that.

That might be easier to believe if the pro-death penalty crowd didn't fight so hard for the right to execute the mentally retarded.

Just saying is all.

Fear the Corky!

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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do we not kill

dangerous sick dogs that maim/kill humans? Mentally retarded who are so dangerous as to kill other humans should not be treated lightly.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Sorry, no.

Trying to claim that the retarded can constitute the "more egregious of 1st degree murders" is laughable. Their lack of capacity makes them simultaneously less culpable and less dangerous to incarcerate or commit.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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"Mentally handicapped = sick dogs"

Has a kind of Nazi ring to it, doesn't it?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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I did not equate the two n/t

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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You certainly did in this case. Your own words:

do we not kill

dangerous sick dogs that maim/kill humans? Mentally retarded who are so dangerous as to kill other humans should not be treated lightly.

Am I missing something?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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I only brought up sick dogs

to illustrate that just because they are not in good mental state and are not fully responsible for their actions, we still kill them because they are a threat to society.

Well dangerous mentally retarded are a threat as well and would pose a direct threat to any facility employees where they might be incarcerated.

Also there is an issue of how retarded they really are and whether they can still comprehend the morality of their actions.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Put. The shovel. Down.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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I just want murderers

I just want murderers killed.

What you want is a Federal Vengeance System then, which has nothing to do with justice.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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NIce!

Who decides who dies. The Justice System.

And who's in charge as a shiny example for all the people to see, the arbiter of the moral lowground, Alberto Gonzales.

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Too many mistakes made...

...for me to support the death penalty. Even when the justice system applies the death penalty in good faith, innocent people will be put to death.

There is nothing wrong with life in prison with no parole for murder. At least then, if exonerating evidence comes to light later, the conviction can be reversed.

And there's many cases where there simply is no DNA evidence. A lot of times, a conviction or acquittal comes down to eyewitness testimony or other non-scientific evidence. And... even DNA evidence can be planted. Do you trust any and all governments to not frame their political opponents for crimes and put them to death?

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I think you're mistaken

They'd gladly privatize both mail and justice systems leaving in the government hands only the power to enforce your compliance.

Sic semper tyrannis

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Dick Cheney gets SPANKED by George McGovern.

In todays LA Times article written by Senator McGovern . Hightlights:

VICE PRESIDENT Dick Cheney recently attacked my 1972 presidential platform and contended that today's Democratic Party has reverted to the views I advocated in 1972. In a sense, this is a compliment, both to me and the Democratic Party. Cheney intended no such compliment. Instead, he twisted my views and those of my party beyond recognition...Cheney said that today's Democrats have adopted my platform from the 1972 presidential race and that, in doing so, they will raise taxes. But my platform offered a balanced budget. I proposed nothing new without a carefully defined way of paying for it. By contrast, Cheney and his team have run the national debt to an all-time high...In the war of my youth, World War II, I volunteered for military service at the age of 19 and flew 35 combat missions, winning the Distinguished Flying Cross as the pilot of a B-24 bomber. By contrast, in the war of his youth, the Vietnam War, Cheney got five deferments and has never seen a day of combat — a record matched by President Bush.

Ouch! Darth must be one of those S&M'ers we hear so much about to like getting paddled as frequently as he seems to like getting it.

…………

Why not just turn these criminals over to...

... Torboto: The robot that tortures people .

Would that make you happy, Ender?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

…………

that's a cute

robot. I like it!

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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My favorite part is when Torboto

... rips Cheney's fake heart out of his chest.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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the libs who did this cartoon

are fairly unoriginal terrorist lovers :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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And cowardly Dick Cheney is your hero.

The guy who loves torture.

The cowards on your team are running the show.

Did you know Rudy was a draft dodger, too, just like Cheney?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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why are they all my heroes now?

Do you think you impress me with alluding to someone's love for torture? Do you think I care?

You know, it is possible to be a great leader without being a veteran. I couldn't care less about Rudy's non-service. I know that the man did well in NYC despite the almost-communist gang running that city.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Rudy is a coward just like Cheney and Bush.

I love how these phony tough guys want to impress us with their tough guy demeanors when every single one of them is a coward, too afraid to serve their country when called.

And they have nerve to call out others' patriotism.

Losers, all.

These are your heroes.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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Ruff Ruff

I'll second the cowards comment.

Rudy= not popular with NYC. The fireman whose pals lost lives on 9/11 especially hate him.

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check out these dkos censoring freaks

“Barack The Magic Negro” Plays on Rush. And he is still on the air?

Most of the commenters are completely clueless that Rush is doing a parody for a title that ran in LA Times and that he is free to do whatever he wants. Most of the commenters are also completely clueless that Rush is not some wimp like Imus, has 20 million listeners and full support of the entire GOP that would defend him from any assault.

Any pathetic effort on their part to take him down or intimidate his advertisers would lead nowhere regardless of the amount of bloodthirsty envy and frothing at the mouth.

Rush is pretty much untouchable.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

…………

Rush is a tool.

He's Rove's little plaything.

Do you think those two are an item?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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Rush

likes pretty women, while Rove is probably gay. So I doubt they are an item.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Rush also like drugs and underage girls.

No wonder he's one of your heroes.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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damn man...

Rush is not one of my heroes but I respect him for the contribution he made to strengthening the conservative base. I don't care what he does on his own time :)

[edit] and are you implying I like drugs and underage girls?? :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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You don't care what he does on his own time?

So you support letting drug abusers run free in our society? You support a man's right to have sex with underaged girls as long as it is outside the purview of U.S. authorities?

Really?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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no

I just don't care that Rush is addicted to pain killers (big deal... some drug abuser). And your accusations of what Rush did in some other country simply don't mean anything to me.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Embarrassing double standard.

Please stop preaching about "personal responsibility."

You have zero standing on the issue.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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that's your personal opinion

I do not recognize your definition of where "personal responsibility" actually applies.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Wait

The way I understand the "personal responsibility" is that nobody else by the person who voluntarily acts in certain way is responsible for the results of this action (or inaction). Am I wrong? Where does it not apply?

Sic semper tyrannis

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mainly

yes, you are right. In a just and fair and free society, it works out quite well but when the repercussions and results of those actions become disproportionate to the original decision/act is when it is time to get worried.

For example I might be an Iranian woman, walking around with a stylish veil showing some of my hair, and then bam the religious police arrests me because the hardliners decided to crack down on the destroyers of the social order...

Technically it is my fault for being a bit "risky" but do you find those results just and fair?

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Comparing

personal responsibility in Iran to personal responsibility in the US is changing the subect.

There is no Iranian Club for Growth.

Although I understand that Iranian fundamentalists and the Christian right share similar views on homosexuality.

………… parent

Unfortunately, however, it doesn't always work out that way.

Often enough, for example, a kid who makes a habit of regularly bullying other kids in the schoolyard is not encouraged to take responsibility for his actions and behaviours, and the kid(s) on the receiving end of the bully's behaviours end up taking the brunt of it, because of a persistence refusal to hold the bully accountable for his/her actions and/or behaviours.

………… parent

Who cares? Condi is My Magic Negro

………… parent

Condi is a sex object for Ender.

That whole mystique of the sexually-charged negress.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

why would you take this angle

you know I am not a racist.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Dude.

Red flag.

Seriously.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

So sue me.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

You're destroying your own credibility...

...with these uncalled for personal attacks. Take a step back and breathe.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Get off it.

I'm addressing Ender. The same guy who is forever preaching about "personal responsibility" yet rarely or never applies it to his own side, particularly on the biggest issue of the day which is Iraq.

Frankly, I don't care what you think, either.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

Sweetness and Light

Ate his box of Wheaties this morning.

SwiftboatKlansmen works for me.

I saw a "magic negro" article a while back and was disgusted.

But it inspired me to write a dairy titled.

Condi the Magic Negro

Oh its a worthwhile read! And if I may quote my own brilliant self.

The white man's fear of an intelligent, articulate, clean 'Negro' is on full display in Mr. Ehrenstein's editorial. But this time it is not the sexual prowess that dear David finds threatening, it is that he has finally met a black whose intellectual prowess is greater than his own. Portraying Mr. Obama as the 'magic negro' the noble healing negro, it seems the only quality Mr. Ehrenstein IS interested in, has nothing to do with the mans merits or accomplishments, but is based soley on the color of Barack Obama's skin.

Mr. Ehrenstein, if you wanted to talk about the merit's of Barack Obama as a Presidential candidate why didn't you? You seem to be making the 'magic argument' that you think will derail his campaign, he's black.

………… parent

I know who you are addressing.

And I might be sympathetic to your arguments if you weren't being such an asshole about them.

Try to learn not to shoot yourself in the foot.

That or go join the other side.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Kiss off.

Who died and made you king around here?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

We held an election while you were gone

SC is now a democratic monarchy. Better start playing nice or he'll chop off your head.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

Mimicking the Bush administration...

"I have no record of receiving this report nor do I recall any discussion of said election."

[REPEAT ENDLESSLY]

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

BTW

I think I am falling in love. Nothing sexier than a tough, smart liberal. You are so hawt when you get like this ;+)

………… parent

Talk to my wife.

Maybe we can work something out.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

I'll have my husband call her n/t

………… parent

Oh my god...

Swapping.

Those damn liberals and their fascination with "free love."

You must be a "hippie."

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

this is sick stuff!

it's what the spouses of the online addicts always worry about :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

what are you now...

the thought police

………… parent

I am the religious morality police

like in Iran... :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Liberals blog naked.

I bet I could make a few bucks off that line in t-shirt and bumper sticker sales.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

nice!

And they say liberals are not business minded....

………… parent

wow

you haven't even seen him though... what if he is some 5-legged octopus looking freakazoid?

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

She's non-judgmental.

Damn liberal.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

I thereby accept Tlaloc

as defender of the Conservative faith and knight him thusly. Thanks man :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

I thought you were anti-PC n/t

………… parent

I am.

My objection is not based on political correctness but on unfounded and unneeded accusations of racism towards another poster here.

Treating "I think condi is sort of hot" as "that whole mystique of the sexually-charged negress," is just way over the line.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Hmmmm.......

a line that you drew.

The whole Obama as a magic negro is way over the line for me.

So I see turnabout as far play.

The racist undertones start with this "magic negro" BS.

And we all know the NRA wanted to make sure they could have guns to protect their white women from the animal mystique of the black man.

Condi the "magic negro"..... turnabout is fair play to me. Or is it just different because she is a woman.... ;)

………… parent

I find that line...

...personally offensive too (obama as "magic negro").

But I don't recall Ender having espoused it. Did he and I missed it?

And we all know the NRA wanted to make sure they could have guns to protect their white women from the animal mystique of the black man.

But this has what to do with Ender?

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Interpretation

is a strange beast. I thought CLC's comment was fairly mild and calling Ender out on his use of racist primitivism (especially pertaining to blacks, but also notable to Middle Eastern and Asian cultures):

an ongoing belief in the multitude of non-western societies as fundamentally similar in their "primitiveness," supposedly meaning their irrationality, closeness to nature, free sexuality, freedom, proclivity to violence, "mysticism," etc.

I am not saying CLC is correct in making this assumption, nor am I calling Ender racist (or a believer of primitivism), but I actually thought little of CLC's original remark.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

I'm considering a response to that diary,

since it's a bit misinformed. The majority of comments seem to think that Rush invented the term, or that it's a slap against Obama.

I'm certainly no lover of that bloated gasbag, but that's not what he was doing.

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

………… parent

If you do end up writing a response

don't forget to post it here too =)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

The Clinton obsession never ends.

The paper reports, that "Brian McNicoll, a spokesman for Oversight and Government Reform Committee Republicans, warned that if Democrats want to broadly investigate the use of party e-mail accounts by administration officials, Republicans could extend this investigation back to the end of the Clinton administration as well."

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/GOP_may_target_Clinton_Administration_emai...

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Is the Web anti-right?

WASHINGTON (Map, News) - For several years now, a common refrain among left-wing online political activists has been “We need to own the Internet the way the right owns talk radio.” Based on recent filings with the Federal Election Commission, it looks like the left has succeeded — with Democratic presidential candidates as the primary beneficiaries.

Last fall in this space, I asked, “When will the right recognize the cost of conceding Web 2.0?” With that cost now readily apparent in the form of online campaign contributions for the 2008 presidential campaign cycle, the only remaining question is whether conservatives can do anything about it in time for the elections next fall. It appears likely the answer will be a resounding no.

http://www.examiner.com/a-691054%7ERobert_Cox__Web_2_0_is_worse_for_the_...

Robert Cox raises the usual boogeymen: Google, Wikipedia, "blogs."

And he relies upon a rhetorical device which is similarly used to tar the MSM. That is by pointing toward supposed evidence of the members having liberal politics he then infers that this means the end result or product is biased, without ever actually, you know, providing a scrap of evidence.

Reporters tend to be democrats so news organizations obviously have a left bias.

Wiki editors read left wing blogs so they simply must bias the articles they write.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Support for organic farming?

From a spectroscopy newsletter I get:

Could the claims of the "organic" farming movement be true after all? Analysis of the antioxidant, mineral, and nitrate composition of kiwifruit would suggest so, according to a report in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture. Maria Amodio and Adel Kader of the University of California, Davis, Giancarlo Colelli of the Universita` degli Studi di Foggia, Italy, and Janine Hasey of the University of California, Cooperative Extension, in Yuba City, California, have undertaken a comprehensive study of the constituents of organically grown kiwifruit and reveal that the fuzzy green fruit grown using organic principles contain more health-promoting factors than those grown using conventional methods.

http://www.spectroscopynow.com/coi/cda/detail.cda?id=16108&type=Feature&...

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

You're on a roll today! (n/t)

………… parent

seemed like...

we could use some other topics, at the moment.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

isn't organic stuff

more expensive? Even if it is a bit healthier, isn't it a lot more inefficient to grow?

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Won't the market decide if it wants more organic?

Humorous that Republicans have been desperately trying to loosen the standards for what gets designated "organic" by the FDA.

So much for the free market... again.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

how is this

related to the "free market"?

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Yes and yes

But we artificially increased crop gross through poisoning ourselves:

Lingering pesticides linked to Parkinson's
Past exposure to low levels of pesticides that linger in the environment might accelerate the development of Parkinson's, which would put baby boomers and millions of other aging Americans at risk of developing the brain disease earlier in life.

It is slightly more expensive, but I suppose it is cheaper than the the alternative. Your argument could be said about any healthy eating habit: isn't it cheaper to eat fastfood than fruits and vegetables? Yes, but it will harm you in the long run (and probably be more expensive to you and society too)

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

I suppose so

I have no problem with having both on the market. And I'd probably even pick the healthier alternative. I am just not a big fan of the hippyesque condemnation of the regular commercially produced stuff.

Most of the regular stuff is healthy enough if eaten properly :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Many of your biases

supersede rationality. Because the hippies were ahead of the curve on this one should not cause such a visceral reaction from you.

Listen to the reasons and evidence not the spokesperson. Basing it on the messenger is the essence of the 'ad hominem' fallacy.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

some hippies on the left

have an irrational hatred of all things synthetic, commercial, mass produced, genetically engineered, etc. It all comes from a stupid "don't mess with mother earth and the nature's way" ideology.

I don't care about the "natural" or "organic" way. I want whatever is best regardless of how it is made. If there is something wrong with the commercial way - well then fix it. I don't want to revert to the stone age ways of acquiring our food. Progress is key.

Eventually everything will be genetically engineered or synthetic.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

First off,

all I said was try not to base your arguments automatically on the messenger. Pretend you don't know who delivered it and then make your best rational decision on whether you agree or not (like one of those taste tests when they cover up the can).

Second, last I checked, organic is still for sale on the commercial market, so calling 'hormone saturated, pesticide laden, nitrates form chemical fertilizers up the wazoo' the commercial variety is misleading.

I think the definition of your 'best' is up for debate. So far it is a lot of hot air. Gross yield? Yes, chemicals are superior. Nutrition and health benefits? Unaltered is better. Is there room for a happy-medium? Sure, let's strive for that, but let's not knock the messenger on the way.

One day we will all be dead from hubris like yours. You can't beat physics my friend. The universe will die out one day no matter what kind of machine we create.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

by best I meant

tastiest, healthiest, and cheapest in that order :)

We have billions of years to go until the Universe dies. In the meantime we'll survive just fine, even with the whole hormone saturated, pesticid laden, nitrates up the wazoo or whatever. In case you haven't noticed, we've been living longer and longer with that food.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Wow

You are mr. logical fallacy today. We start off by talking about the health benefits of 'organically' grown food to conventionally grown food. How does Ender go about the argument? Let's see, first there is ad hominem:

I am just not a big fan of the hippyesque condemnation of the regular commercially produced stuff.

Switching gears to the red herring:

some hippies on the left

have an irrational hatred of all things synthetic, commercial, mass produced, genetically engineered, etc. It all comes from a stupid "don't mess with mother earth and the nature's way" ideology.

Is he done yet folks? No, let's throw in a causal fallacy just for good measure:

In the meantime we'll survive just fine, even with the whole hormone saturated, pesticid laden, nitrates up the wazoo or whatever. In case you haven't noticed, we've been living longer and longer with that food.

Call it the fallacy trifecta. How many more can he lay on the line before the discussion is over? I guess we'll see.

Regarding your causal fallacy, do you think it is because we are eating hormone saturated, pesticide laden, nitrates up the wazoo foods or because we have better medicine, hygiene, safety regulations, etc. Hmm, I wonder.

Ok, your turn. What kind of fallacy are you going to use next? :)

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

I think all the preservatives

in the food preserve us and increase our lifespan :)

You are mostly right though :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Wow, thanks

Twinkies are my plan for immortality too. :)

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

Smoking is mine

Try this experiment: Put a piece of raw meat and a piece of smoked meat on the kitchen counter and see which one lasts longer. I will reveal to you that the more you smoke meat - the longer it lasts - but you don't have to trust me - it's a simple experiment which offers irrefutable proof for the main benefit of smoking.

"Smoking - some call it an early and painful death - we call it: The key to immortality."

Sic semper tyrannis

………… parent

Noting the very alarming increase in autism

and it's possible links to mercury.

Autism is said to occur in one out of a hundred births now...... and it is nearly impossible to deal with.

Even organic food (fish) can be filled with mercury toxins from the environment.

And people wonder about the alarming increase of cancer.

Remember when Tony Snow announced his leave of absence, almost every single person on SC knew someone directly affected by cancer.

………… parent

The person I know who is most rigorous in eating only organic

... foods happens to be a conservative Republican. And never was this guy a hippie.

Go figure.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

Organic food: yep, healthier, but more expensive.

Not sure if or how it's any more efficient to grow. One has to work harder to keep pests away from it.

………… parent

While GoRight is on vacation...

...I've turned Republican. Granted, I'm in the Rabid RINO wing of the party, a wing of one, but I've long had this fantasy of going Republican and going on this heroic reform crusade to recreate the liberal wing of the Republican Party. I don't see why I can't be a Republican: I'm reasonably pro-business, anti-protectionsist, pro-fiscal-responsibility, against any new unfunded entitlement programs, pro-domestic-oil-drilling. Heck, I'm everything the Republican Party ought to be!

…………

welcome to the right side

I have a feeling that you belong here. Feel free to start going after the libs :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

I'll go after...

...the whiny, 'government is the source of all my problems, fix my life now', big-welfare-state and ignore the budget, anti-business, environmental purity troll but still driving a car ideological socialists who call themselves liberals and give us moderate liberals a bad name.

………… parent

Libertarian Liberals!

The Republicans are gone.

The NeoConSwiftBoatKlansMenforGrowth. No too long.

The SBV-KGB patroling American discourse looking traitors to the cause.

………… parent

Seems to be a shame to throw away...

...the Republican brand. Harley Davidson was revived...

Sure there are some pretty nasty ideologues in the Republican party. I'll stamp em out like cockroaches.

………… parent

Swords Crossed own Lincoln Chaffee eh?

You do us proud.

………… parent

Linc is good people

A Republican who voted against the Iraq War before it even started. That alone makes him a hero of mine.

………… parent

Hey, the Republican party didn't used to be run by it's

crazy wing. My family (back in the North East) is a long line of New England republicans. You know, the type that favor fiscal responsibility (like a balanced budget) and socially liberal (like it's your choice to get an abortion, not someone elses).

I have alot of respect for those values. If only folks like Lincoln, Olympia, and the others would actually vote for what they stand for, we wouldn't be in this problem today. But no, it was EXPEDIANT to vote for bush43's idiocy all the time.

………… parent

The previous generation...

...tended to have a little more spine, it seems like, although that might be more nostalgic illusion than truth. Still, I can't imagine any party boss twisting Lowell Weicker's arm too hard without getting some pushback.

………… parent

Linc is a sellout

I am glad he is gone because if he won he would've switched to the Dems anyways.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Is Joe Lieberman a sellout?

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

no, Joe is

a patriotic American! :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

I knew it!

Heh.

If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

………… parent

come on :)

what did you expect.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Voting your conscience = sellout?

Calling him a sellout implies that you think that Linc really believed in the Iraq war, but voted against his conscience to profit somehow from his Iraq War vote.

That's not what happened. He voted his conscience, and it happened to be against the party line. You may disagree with him, but he wasn't being a sellout.

Us Republicans need to widen our tent if we want to win elections.

………… parent

he voted the way he did

because of his State's politics and some misguided sense of what might appeal to his constituents... He blocked Bolton and was a complete loser.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Blocking that misfit neocon Bolton...

Makes hime even more of a hero to me.

I see irony in how the right-wingers always argue about how ineffective the UN is, and then they appoint a boor like Bolton who has a proven history of not being able to get along with anybody.

………… parent

we don't want to use

UN for "getting along". It's a useless organization for various tin pot dictator bloviating. All the actual negotiations happen behind the scenes outside of UN. There is practically no one to negotiate with at UN with many worthless countries yipping and snapping.

Bolton was an ideal choice for that place to tell them how it is.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Funny, though

...the most shameful bloviation that I recall that the UN was Colin Powell pimping cartoons of trucks with WMDs there.

And gee, anti-American blowhards like Hugo Chavez and Ahmadinejad have sure increased their prestige and influence under Bush and his foreign policy fronted by the likes of Bolton... how did that happen? Is Bush just unlucky? Or is the approach to the world all wrong?

Maybe if we start acting in good faith once again, the UN might take its cues from us as the leader of the free world once again. Just a thought.

………… parent

That's the strategy

Make the government look so inept that people start to rely on the privatization. What is that called again? Oh yeah, drown the government in the bathtub . Worked well for Hurricane Katrina.

A good cartoon about Grover Norquist here relating to this topic.

Same idea with Bolton and the UN: send a guy who hates it already to show how ineffectual it (we) can be.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

Tho it is not PC

I despise with passion the Club for Growth. Despise them.

They want people like killer Cho to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I hope Grover N. goes to prison with his good pal Jack Abramoff.

………… parent

Two worthy efforts from my Republican brother...

...Jeff Flake (R-AZ)

An effort with Charlie Rangel towards beginning to bring to an end the outdated Cold War relic that is the sanctions against Cuba by lifting the travel ban to Cuba:

We should unite around a principle that Democrats and Republicans have long embraced, a principle that aided the West's success in the Cold War: American openness is a source of strength, not a concession to dictatorships.

It is time to permit free travel to Cuba, as provided in legislation we have introduced. Open travel would create a "free flow of ideas" that "would promote democratization," as dissident Oscar Espinosa Chepe wrote shortly after his release from prison in 2004. It would also bring humanitarian benefits to Cubans as family visits increase and travelers boost Cuba's small but vital entrepreneurial sector.

Electoral politics should not prevent us from reaching out to 11 million neighbors who have lived under communism for 48 long years.

With Luis Gutierrez (DIL), the most promising immigration reform bill in Congress right now, a compromise bill to be sure, but a bill I can support and a bill that can pass.

Flake-Gutierrez :

* $2000 fine + back taxes + interest  for illegal aliens

* Illegal aliens must exit and re-enter thru any port of entry

* 6 year path to permanent residency if English competency is attained and no criminal record

* up to 400,000 guest worker permits per year, with permits only issued in areas of low unemployment

* Items too numerous to mention for beefing up border security

* Other items too numerous to mention-- it's 677 pages

 I'm sure that there are flaws in those 677 pages that need to be addressed through the amendment process, but it's a plan that can pass.  Let's not let 'perfect' be the enemy of the good; let's not be a bunch of purists and kill immigration reform for yet another year.

…………

I gotta say

that ain't too bad. Though I'd put some border enforcement stuff into the immigration bill. Other than that, it's a worthy effort from our republican brother. I am glad you noticed.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Plenty of border enforcement stuff

More border agents, cameras, UAVs, etc., enhancements to documents including biometrics, tougher penalties for aliens who commit crimes, expansion of detention facilites.

The Lou Dobbs crowd will myopically look at the guest worker part and the "amnesty" part, but it looks like a tough common sense bill to me.

………… parent

May be too early

but I sense another misstep for the 'privatization' advocates developing with this story:

Breaking: Full-scale riot breaks out at Indiana prison
NEW CASTLE, Ind. - A “full-scale riot” broke out Tuesday at a medium-security men’s prison, according to the mayor, and pictures taken from television helicopters showed at least two fires burning in the courtyard.
. . .
The medium-security facility is managed by the GEO Group Inc., based in Boca Raton, Fla., according to the Indiana Department of Corrections Web site. The prison, built in 2002, houses about 450 inmates.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

…………

I saw it too

but that might be a common thing as far as who runs those kinds of facilities and have nothing to do with what happened... too early.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Watching Fox News for some reason

...a guy on there was just talking about privatization, and apparently they get paid by the head... one critic points out that prisons are meant for punishment and deterrence, but that the private companies are interested in "treating em good, feeding em good, so that they keep coming back"...

Another critic says that they scrimp on food and medical care to save money.

So I guess we'll just have to wait to see what the real deal is. Fact is, we have a long history of sketchy conditions in federally-run prisons too, and there's been riots before in federally run prisons.

………… parent

you are watching Fox News

because you are beginning the wondrous transformation into a good conservative human being. It's a very pleasant experience. Just enjoy it.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Yes,

little thought and lots of emotion. :)

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

Meh.

I was checking the Weather Channel, and Fox News is one channel down on DirecTV.

………… parent

Too early

but the whole idea of prison for profit does not make much sense to me. They are no cheaper to taxpayers, it is not in their best interest to rehabilitate prisoners (less 'customers'), and it seems they would cut massive corners to create more profit (which their stock seems to show as a successful trend for GEO).

I grant you that riots occur at federally-run prisons too, but I think we should wait to see what the grievances are before we can make more judgment calls evaluating the two.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida

………… parent

Tend to agree that prison privatization...

...doesn't really sound like the brightest idea to me on the surface, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

Just like gun control discussion hours after a mass-shooting are likely to be superficial, so are prison condition discussions while there is an ongoing riot. Time will reveal the facts, and we shouldn't have a knee-jerk reaction that the riots are a righteous reaction to unacceptable conditions in the prison, nor a knee jerk reaction to condemn the prison operators. Criminals often riot simply because they are, well, violent criminals.

………… parent

BBC has an article on how

Israeli bus lines allow gender discrimination .

Yes, that's what it says. Through the ultra orthodox sections of Jerusalem, women have to ride in the back of the bus whether they are orthodox or not. Orthodox spokespersons describe requiring women to ride only in the back of the bus as beneficial to women.

Hmmm...ride in the back of the bus, eh....Where have I heard that before?

…………

Redstate having conniption fit...

...over Reid.

Latest example:
http://www.redstate.com/stories/the_parties/democrats/dissing_general_pe...

If Reid should be censured for anything it's that it took him this long to figure out we couldn't win when a lot of us knew before the invasion ever took place.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Poor babies

At least it is keeping their mind off the infantile testimony of Gonzales.

LIke vultures they swarm over this raw meat. I swear half of those guys are recovering Viet Nam Vets, how actually have never recovered.

The betrayal of the missions belongs to Bush. He screwed it up so bad that now we are actually in serious danger because of the state of our military and the state of international affairs. ..... which is a bit frightening.

I am prouder then sh*t of Reid for standing his ground.

………… parent

Republicans have been hiding behind Petraeus...

...all of this year.

If you're an extra-terrestrial and you just flew in from another planet and landed on Earth in the past three months, you probably think that Gen. Petraeus is the leader of the world if you've listened to Republicans too much.

Leadership? Accountability? Not so much.

………… parent

pico, this is for you

good article on Yeltsin (in russian). I translated the excerpts for the masses :)

Если Ельцин и считал себя отцом-основателем посткоммунистической России, Томас Джефферсон из него не получился. Встреча, где президенты России, Украины и Белоруссии работали над планом распада Союза, закончилась пьяной ссорой. Демократическая заря России продлилась всего два года, пока новый президент не приказал танкам стрелять по тому же самому парламенту, который помог ему покончить с советской властью.

If Yeltsin even considered himself the founding father of post-Communist Russia, Thomas Jefferson he was not. The meeting where presidents of Russia, Ukraine, and Belorussia worked on the plan to break up the Union ended in a drunken quarrel. The Democratic Dawn of Russia lasted only two years until the new president ordered the tanks to shoot at the same Parliament that helped him to finish off Soviet rule.

heh... and sadly this:

Российские жестко контролируемые телевизионные каналы торжественно почтили память Ельцина, называя его великим человеком. Они показали архивные записи времен начала его карьеры в качестве главы коммунистической партии в Свердловске и времен его восхождения в Политбюро.

Russian, harshly censored Television channels celebrated Yeltsin's memory, calling him a great man. They showed archived videotapes of the beginnings of his career as the head of city of Sverdlovsk Communist Party and the time of his ascendance in Politburo.

I think that says it all.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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The masses appreciate the translation (nt)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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I have to say...

...that cyrillic writing looks really freaking cool. Right up there with Kanji and Katakana.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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yeah it is pretty cool

but I gotta say that it is looking more and more alien to my eyes as years go by. It's becoming slightly more difficult each time to just jump right into reading it :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Very well done!

Although one line I'd translate differently, if only because the English connotation is a lot different:

Российские жестко контролируемые телевизионные каналы торжественно почтили память Ельцина, называя его великим человеком.

Heavily-censored Russian television stations solemnly honored the memory of Yeltsin, calling him a great man.

(instead of "celebrated"). Although there's something comical about solemn television shows, or at least hard to take seriously. I'm imagining one of those ponderous, gloomy voices intoning basic facts about Yeltsin's life over photographs of him before he wore his alcoholism on his face, interrupted every 5 minutes by a bright and chipper реклама!

Great article - thanks for the link.

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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Wow you can read that stuff?

I'm impressed... I held a mirror up to it and I still couldn't make sense out of it :-)

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One of the odd facts about this place

is that we have an abnormally high percentage of Russian speakers, for an American political blog. By that, I mean two (as far as I know) of our dozen or so regular users - but that's a huge percentage, comparatively!

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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I can't find the faintest

recognition in those odd looking letters of Russian or Yeltsan. Where is the R and where is the Y........? Good grief. It looks like Arabic to me.

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hehe here

Росс ий ские - Russian
Ross ii skie

Е ль ц ин - Yeltsin
Ye l' ts in

Translated and transliterated :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Thanks a bunch!

How many letters are in the russian alphabet?

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there are

33 :)

Just a bit more because there are letters for sounds like: ya, ts, ch, sh, yo, zh, sch, yu, etc

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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here you go!

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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muchas gracias

Which language do you think is the simplest of all....... I am guessing spansih.

And the most difficult....... chinese????

I dig that crazy Russian Alphabet.

I have a question from my son who has a room mate Zlatan. Are Bulgarian and Russian fairly close as far as languages go.

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Bulgarian

alphabet is exactly the same as Russian. Considering a Bulgarian gave Russia their alphabet - a little bit of history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_alphabet

As for the language itself, I don't know how close it is but probably fairly close. Pico might know this better, but when I heard spoken Bulgarian, a lot of words sounded very familiar :)

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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A lot of shared vocab,

and a lot of devout Orthodox Russians recognize more, because it's closest to Old Slavonic, which is used in the religious services. The biggest grammatical differences are that Bulgarian doesn't have a case system (which is nice), but the verb system is insane (which is not).

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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OMG

Past future perfect tense is a compound form used to express a past action which is future with respect to a past action which itself is prior to another past action; it is made up of the past imperfect of ща (shta) "will, want", the particle да (da) "to", the present tense of the verb съм (sum) "be" (am) and the past participle of the verb (щях да съм учил, shtyah da sum uchil, "I would have studied").

It sounds as though they have tagged the verb to be a verb AND an adjective at the same time. Though I don't understand the language, I think this is fascinating why they would implement verbs into such an active and descriptive part of their language.

Simplistic..... I love you as a friend.
I love you as a mate.
I love you as an enemy.

The past imperfect prior action in the present tense. Going to war in Iraq is to be a mistake.

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I've often wondered how to explain the

ы...

That is a cool letter to pronounce. But showing how to pronounce it can make one look retarded.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Don't be shy.

Give it your best shot...... zhle

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heh you are welcome

I knew that was not the exact translation on that word but I just could not come up with the "solemnly honored" :) Oh well...

My dad sent the link to me, he found the article very amusing.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Admittedly,

"solemnly honored" sounds a little clunky, but I love that image of a ponderous news homage, punctuated by commercials. I wonder if they put together a montage years ago, just waiting for him to die (like those ... was it CNN? ... obits of famous people that were accidentally posted a few years ago).

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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hehe

I missed those obits... must've been some funny stuff!

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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This is cool

They've found the first water-bearing extra-solar-system planet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6589157.stm

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yeah that is pretty awesome

It is things like this that make me wish I had more time in my life to see all these questions answered and know what is out there.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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