Wednesday Open Thread
So is Bush going to pardon Libby? Any predictions?
Also do you think Jefferson should resign, or at the very least should the House vote to expel him? The house just voted to investigate him.
This is an Open Thread.
Submitted by Ender on Wed, 2007-06-06 08:47
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Of course there'll be a pardon.
As soon as it's been turned down by the Supreme Ct or January '09, whichever comes first.
Wow, we are agreeing a lot anymore! :) n/t
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4I may be liberal, but I'm not blind.
True dat! n/t
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Stealing from myself
i seeit this way:
Representative of Libby goes to Bush, and asks about a pardon. Bush says, "I don't know. Wouldn't look good."
Rep: GB, you can't let him just rot in prison.
GB: Really? 30 months, he's already served, what is it..."
Rep: He's suffering in there, GB.
GB: How's he doing for money?
Rep: He's got a little.
(Pause)
Rep: What--you're not saying--
GB: Keep it down man. But I got expenses, too, you know.
Rep: I think maybe we could go-
GB: Hush. You got the sense of a Texas bull when the cows asses are shining in the sun. Heh, heh. that's Texas talk. Just write it down.
Rep: (scribbles, slides the paper over.)
GB: Ah, I wish I could, but that's just about as wet as a wadi snake in June. Heh, heh. that's Texas talk. Gotta splash a little somethin' in there, of you know what i mean.
Rep: That's all he can come up with.
GB: Well, ok, tell 'im we'll fire up the BBQ when he gets out. My intern will show you out. Pretty little thing, isn't she. Bill recommended her. Prime beef, that one.
[Three Days Later]
GB: Good to see you again. Bring any water?
Rep: Water?
GB: Water. For the Wadi--the snake--
Rep: I remember. We hit up some friends, drained an account or two. (Scribbles) how's this?
GB: Well, that's lookin' better. Won't be long now 'til we can drive her to Abeline. That's Texas talk, get it? Actually that's Kansas talk, too, cause Abeline is in Kansas. But Abilene is Texas talk. that one's in Texas.
Rep: Well?
GB: Scooter got any more friends? Just tell 'em, "A friend in need, ya' gotta bleed!" That's Texas talk.. Hope to see ya' again.
[Three Days Later]
GB: Well, didya gather the clover or fall in the cactus. Cactus. That's Texas--
Rep: Dammit, GD. I know. Don't you ever get serious?
GB: Yeah, i get serious. When I decide things. I'm the decider. An' I think you want me to do some deciding. Better lose that attitude or uyou may fog my brain glasses.
Rep: Er, is that Texas talk?
GB: Texas talk? Now you're insulting this old Texan. that's some o' that high-brow science talk from New York City.
Rep: I see. Here's what I got. (Slides paper)
GB: Aw, that ain't nothin' more than what Bill gave that Rich fellar.
Rep: Wethought it was the going rate. (He's lookin' worried now)
GB: It IS the going rate---EIGHT YEARS AGO! I didn't hold inflation to zero, ya know. Teimes change. I gotta get me some, whatta the poor folk casll it, you know--yeah, that's it, i gotta get my COLA. What? (my intern) What? No, I don't need any soda. (When Billl sens 'em, they'r effible, but about as bright as a cow skull left in the Alamo by Sam Bowie. That's.......
Rep: Well?
GB: I need my COLA. What? No, no soda. You want one for the trip home?
Rep: One what?
GB: Soda. i can't spare an intern.
(Three Days Later)
Rep: We got your COLA.
GB: What? No, no, no soda. Dang. How much?
Rep: Well, we sat down, took the inflation rate per month since you inauguration--you know, when you raised your hand--the first one--yeah, that's it--we took the monthly--
GB: Ah, don't bother with all that. I trust that ol' Scooter wouldn't dare try to cheat me. I'd extend his sentence.
Rep: So?
GB: We gotta deal. Let's say this is for..I know...the library. Been nice doin' business with ya'.
(Rep leaves. Phone rings)
GB: Ok., put 'im through....hay...Yup...just like you told me.....yep.....he was tense as the sheep was that day you run out in the field naked...yep...yep...I know you did....yep...It IS sweet stringin' 'em along, ropin' 'em up, and bleedin' 'em dry...Gotta go? ok..yep, I'll tell Laura..Say hello to Chelsea for me..Bye
Starts to count the money..
GB: One thousand for Laura, one thousand for me. one thousand for Laura; one two thousand for me. One thousand for Laura; one, two, three thousand for Laura.....
Hey, i guess a soon-to-be ex-president's gotta get a little something for himself, right?
rofl
I wonder what GWB will do out of office?
I don't see him seeking to maintain influence or stay in the limelight. Probably go retire.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Marc Rich's Lawyer Pardoned
that partisan conservatives point the finger at Bill Clinton for pardoning Marc Rich when Scooter Libby was Marc Rich's lawyer for years.......!
Now they want the President to pardon Marc Rich's lawyer.
I wish someone would write that headline.
.... the irony.
I'm only half stupid
Huh?
What's Marc Rich's lawyer's identity have to do with anything?
As you know, from an objective point of view, the Rish pardon was questionable. But a president can grant them to anyone for any reason. Personally, I think Bill got snookered by his ex-wife.
The point is that it is of no consequence in the all of things. So, we can have some fun with it!
Life is more than drooling hatred, and using funny words like 'partisan' in a partisan way. You know, when people talk that way, I sometimes think that they don't know if they are seeing out a window or looking in a mirror.
I mean, the left has gotten so humourless that a couple of weeks ago I said, "my mother told me that when you point at someone, three fingers point back at you," and some humourless liberala angrily told me that "you didn't get it from your mother(!)" and that it wasn't true anyway, because the fingers don't point exactly back!
Geesh! Life is too short.
Oh, did I mention that liberals calling conservatives partisan is like pointing? And you know, when youpoint at someone.......
Merely Irony
a form of humor that is evidently lost on you.
I'm only half stupid
It is ironic
I got that part.
Not much of an irony.
Iraq thread.....
Todays SF Chronicle had an op-ed by Robert Scheer titled - Bush Plans To Stay In Iraq For Decades
. I know we've discussed this previously. It would seem that the bush43 supporters pat answer is to stay there however long it takes. Well that is an answer, just one we on the other side don't feel makes any sense. Here's a couple of quotes from the piece:
"The White House's admission that President Bush is modeling America's presence in Iraq upon the 54-year-old stationing of U.S. troops in South Korea is as outlandish as it is alarming. Outlandish, when the president of what is still presumably a representative democracy willfully ignores voters' demands that the occupation be brought to a timely end; alarming, because Bush has clearly not understood that it is the U.S. occupation that feeds the nationalist and religious frenzy roiling Iraq, and the entire Middle East."
He goes on to suggest that a more apt comparison is the US role in Vietnam and backs it up reasonably well.
We aren't protecting Iraqi's from chaos and disaster. That's exactly what we've brought to them. The bush43 regime is occupying Iraq because of it's oil. That's really all they care about.
It doesn't matter if we leave in 10 months or 10 years (or 50 years if you want to use the Administrations analogy), the Shia and the Sunni's will kill each other with abandon as soon as we leave. They'll do this till they both get it through their thick skulls that working together protects their clans from being murdered by someone else. What do US Forces occupying Iraq prevent? Nothing. They're still killing each other with abandon. But our very presence stops them from recognizing that they need to cooperate. Stops those that do recognize it from acting on it. And all the while, it's the US forces that are in the middle of a circular firing squad. You bush43 supporters may think that's OK, but my position is that I have more regard for the lives of the men and women in our military than you seem to have. They aren't lil green toy soldiers. They're real. They bleed real blood and leave real families back home here in the US who cry real tears when they learn their loved ones are coming home for the last time in a box.
Not surprised and I don't object.
The underlined portion is left-wing hyperbole. There is no (conclusive) evidence to support this position, nor is it well reasoned. the "nationalist and religious frenzy roiling Iraq, and the entire Middle East" has been there for millennia. It is not something that was invented, or even significantly exacerbated by, our presence there.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Well it is Scheer's opinion.
And I will admit to agreeing in my own way.
I reacted differently
Scheer means i can usually predict what off the wall thing he will say. When I was working the Muslim boards during the second Infatada, he is part of the reason that the LATimes got the nickname, "Palestine Times West."
But when I see "Bush to stay in Iraq for years" (or whatever it was" i know he is off his rocker. First, he can't mean that Amerca will stay in Iraq for years because Bush will be gone in a year an a half. Second, he can't be saying that Bush is going to live in Baghdad, because 'stay' implies that Bush is already living in Baghdad (say).
Somehow I didn't feel any great compulsion to read another one of Scheer's conspiratorial flights of fancy.
Just my take.
Whew, what a relief!
I am SO pleased to hear that we have not exacerbated the tensions in Iraq with a 4 year occupation. It'sw almost like we aren't even there, huh?
Cool. I do have a question, though. The nationalist and religious frenzy, at least now that they have established a Constitution subject to Islamic law, has been running since when? Here, I'll tell you what. Don't even worry about the last thousand. Just worry about the last 40. How many people died as a result of religious differences internal to Iraq? Hell, I'll lob you the softball of asking how many died as a result of government repression or crackdown in the same period?
And how many are dying now, or have died in the last four? Consider this a public service announcement from the Organization for the Prevention of Rampant Ignorance.
Glad that I could allay your concerns. n/t
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Jefferson needs to go
there are no negative political consequences; he'd be replaced with another (African-American) Democrat. Keeping him around makes the Dems look like hypocrites on ethics.
There was a post up on dKos reminding of his behavior after Katrina
as well.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I wish he'd resign.
I'm afraid he's going to go the Tom Delay way and wait till he's convicted.
At least he's resigned his Appropriations seat.
Between a rock and a hard place.
That's where Jefferson put the Democrats. They find themselves in a lose-lose situation.
If they acceed to CBC demands to keep him around, they will be open to the hypocrite charge.
If they oust him pro-actively they will be open to the racism charge. Don't think so? Why are they acceeding to the CBC position then?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Jefferson is innocent
He is the victim of a Republican lynching.
He was indicted because he is black and because Rove ordered it. yet another political prisoner of the Bush junta.
That thing about the $90K in his freezer -- that's no big deal. The Cash Fairies left it.
I always find money from the Cash Fairies when I'm looking in the freezer for a frozen pizza for lunch or something. Just the other day I found $14K in small-denomination, unmarked, nonsequential bills behind the Rocky Road ice cream.
And last week, there was $5K inside the frozen fish filets. I don't normally find $90K at one time, but Jefferson is a congressman so I guess the Cash Fairies like him more than the rest of us.
qui tacet consentire
Where did you buy your freezer.
I want to get one.
I'm only half stupid
It's not the freezer
It's the Cash Fairies.
You have to be very good to be visited by the Cash Fairies, which is why the Cash Fairies don't leave money in very many Republican freezers.
qui tacet consentire
ooooohhhhh
cash fairies like from the outer limits of the telecommunications network.
I will try and be very good and see what happens.
I'm only half stupid
breaking news: thousands of turkish troops cross into Iraq
chasing Kurd guerillas. On MSNBC, no further details available.
[Edit] Here is the article:
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Yet another reason
to redeploy American troops from the rest of Iraq to Kurdistan.
qui tacet consentire
Its the dominoe theory
in reverse.
Chaos and civil stife in Iraq will spread throughout the region to create conditions unfriendly to the US....... . Staying the course is the only option. We are making progress. We should know how its working in four to six months.
I'm only half stupid
Got another note
on your clef?
unending
and predictable violence brought to us by right wing feel good talking points......and zero accountability to date.
And more right wing talking points to come. I am at war with right wing talking points.
So, no I don't have another note in my clef.
Certainly if you find the sound unpleasant you have the choice not to listen.
I'm only half stupid
hehe
your left wing talking points are at war with our right wing talking points! Whoda thunk it.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I know it sounds silly
but its true.
The Right Owns political framing big time.
Arrrrrrgh!
I'm only half stupid
I seek peace
not war. i avoid talking points.
One does not end war by making war.
I like it.
Unfortunately very very few people think like this. And we live in America where talking points matter.
I'm only half stupid
Thematter of
talking points mattering.
They only matter if fools use them and respond to them. I think most people are like my wife, who is almost completely non-political. They just don't touch her. i think that those of us who pay attention, have a juandiced view of things. For instnce, it has been offered recently on these pages that the stupid people say to themselves, "Gee, I heard the administration say this two times now, so it must be true." Sorry, most people don't hear the administration say anything. I know people my age who have heard one presidential speech in all their lives, the JFK inaugural. Others can count those they've heard on the fingfers of one hand.
If you like thinking like Thich Nhat Hanh, you can easily adopt it. Then there will be one more.
"Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me."
Otherwise, you are for war. Being for peace does not mean trying to force one's own will on others.
Small problem
in the real world, there are bullies. There are lying bullies. And there are mean viscious unethical morally challenged lying bullies.
How do you deal with them.
I am not into laying down and letting ethically challenged lying bullies walk all over me.
You have to balance what you call peace, or not forcing one's will on others with standing up for what you believe in.
IN the real world, it's not a fair fight if one side is throwing rocks, and the other side is throwing bullets...... who wins the 'peace'?
How the 'story' is reported, then how the story is perceived or the 'talking
points' can hold a lot of sway over public opinion and political movements.
I'm only half stupid
Yea, I get that a lot.
From the people on the left:
- Some follow you around and claim that you want all Muslims and Democrats dead.
- Some, like DailyKos, spew hate from afar and refuse to let you participate in the discussion.
- Some, like Democrat Politicians, constantly repeat the mantra that Republicans are racists, sexists, and homophobes.
That kind of bullying.
You seem to want me to respect your position here.
Are you willing to afford me the same courtesy by allowing me to hold my own beliefs even if they differ from yours? Will you demonstrate your willingness to do this by resisting the temptation to lash out and demonize the beliefs of myself and those who believe as I do?
If not, then I would argue that you are trying to push your beliefs on me.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4My reply was to
MS who has a different way of looking at things than you do.
For you I would say....
My belief is that my favorite color is pastel pink. If your favorite color is navy blue, I don't think I need to adopt your favorite color as my own, no matter how much you hate the color pink.
As a for instance:
You seem to think (correct me if I am wrong) that killing people with bullets is a justifiable action against people throwing rocks.
Based on the evidence, from my perspective I don't think that's a fair fight. And I do believe, I have a right to say so out loud and repeatedly.
If you consider bullets vs rocks a fair fight, then I have a right to disagree. My disagreement comes from what I think is fair.
I don't think it is fair for you to say that my view of what is fair infringes on your right to disagree.
Your 'pushing my beliefs on you' argument seems to have a wholesale disregard for my rights of individual expression.
I think you are mischaracterizing the argument, by saying in essence I can't disagree with you. That I don't have that right.
I'm only half stupid
There will be a record number of pardons
in December 2008. And that is probably a good thing.
because if we prosecuted all the crimes committed by the Bush crime family we would have to build a whole new federal penitentiary.
qui tacet consentire
lol
I say if Martha had to serve time, then Scooter should too.
He could always write a book.
I'm only half stupid
Go play my game guessing Presidential speeches
It's crazy fun!
And sort of has a point or two buried in there too.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Its a great game.
It sort of relates to the dairy that pico wrote the other day..... what sources you use, if you come at stories from a point of view etc.
I'm only half stupid
Good point!
Hadn't thought of that connection, but it's certainly true there's room to project your own biases onto the words.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Someone just sent this to me and it's pretty funny...
How'd you like to watch a take off of Steve Jobs at an Apple Conference parodying George Bush explaining his idea about Iraq?
Sounds busy, eh? Maybe so....but a funny MAD TV skit.
I gotta admit.
That is hilarious!
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4potential Stem Cell breakthrough!!!! (no embryo destruction)
Reprogrammed mouse cells avoid controversial destruction of embryos
which would mean the whole moral issue behind it will go away.
Any thoughts?
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
That'll be great.
It's funny, we think of ourselves a so advance an all, and compared to the cavemen we are. But in 200 years when cancer will be cured using our own immune system instead of poisoning ourselves to kill the cancer quicker than us & when a new liver will just be grown from the cells scraped from your cheek....they'll look back at us, see the medicine we use now and think we're much closer to those Doc's that used bleeding and leeches than to our future kin. We just aren't that far ahead, even though we tell ourselves we are.
I want my George Jetson jumpcraft.
I saw that earlier
Looks promising. I would hope that all the most promising lines of research would be encouraged, subsidized, etc. without the political types and interest groups interfering at the earliest reports by any scientists. Let the experts do the work and wait for the real pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, which is, in this case, real cures for real diseases.
skymutt: accept no substitutes!