Youtube debate-A grumpy old man's view

Yesterday I made a lame attempt at satirizing the Youtube debate in a dailykos diary that went mostly unread. Last night The Daily Show devoted their program to ridiculing the debasement of political discourse of the debate; but I doubt that his audience will really get the message. While Jon Stewart gained stature when he attacked CNN's Crossfire program for turning serious political issues into a shouting match for the sake of audience share, he is really in the same business. His income is based on cultivating an audience, not producing better citizens.

The Daily Show, Crossfire, and all profit based mass media including popular blogs, only prosper if they have sufficient audience, either to pay for subscriptions, or bring advertisers who pay for access to this audience As such, their job is not to disturb or leave their audience with a sense of deep concern over pervasive complex issues. The task of these media is to entertain—used in the broadest sense, meaning to provide amusement, interest, even drama that ends in resolution. Entertainment has at its core the goal of leaving an audience satisfied, feeling better for experiencing the presentation.

Effective democratic government only works with informed voters. In this country it means that the people understand myriad competing interests that shape our society, and the complexity of not only our two level national federation but the place of each part of our tripartite central government. And while we are at it, lets consider local government at the city and county level, and various subdivisions such as school boards that all make decisions about how we live.

It is all too much for us. Even those who make a living working in or reporting on government, cover only a small slice of the whole. While, we cannot really independently form judgments on any but a tiny fraction of the questions that face us based on objective criteria, all humans from infancy on can judge other people. We have a sense of affinity to some and discomfort with others. It is in the smile, the warmth, making us laugh-- something ineffable but quite real. It is pre-verbal, and pre-cognitive, and is found in all other social mammalian species. Just as chimpanzees manage to select leaders without knowing anything about their ideologies or plans for dealing with the neighboring group, humans do this instinctively.

There has long been a tension between the intellect and the gut, the mind and the heart, in political life. Originally our country gave intellect the upper hand as our constitution defined a republic rather than a direct democracy. Each state would limit those who would choose their representatives based on criteria that tended to at least insure literacy.

Senators would be selected by the state legislatures, not on the shorthand of party faction, which they hoped would be avoided, choosing the most qualified, wisest man for the responsibility of shaping the country's policies. Such a senator would never even have to be known to the public.
Even the President was to be selected by electors, not necessarily promising to vote for a given candidate, rather independent respected citizens would choose whom they felt would be most suited for this powerful position. Our country at the time of the constitutional convention was so removed to what has evolved that looking back has little purpose.

But my personal frame of reference is less remote, the mid twentieth century, complete with television, phones and daily newspapers. There were only a few channels but it included an independent PBS, that featured programing that stimulated and challenged the viewers. No one asked a candidate whether he would work for minimum wage, (although Truman was working for not a lot more,) or the personal issue of how they talked to their children about sex. There was a consensus among those involved in making the selection for president that this was a serious process, and those being considered should be evaluated on their knowledge, experience and their relevant positions on the issues. (And of course their compliance with the interests of business, arms suppliers, unions, big city bosses and all of the underside of political life.)

As someone who abhors the Bush administration, I have gained a certain solace during his regime from those venues that puncture his hypocrisy on a regular basis. Dailykos.com, has been a source of pleasure, yet I now see a side to it that becomes more disturbing. Just yesterday there was a diary there that was received with universal applause, that cheered the youtube debate as marking the death of MSM, that's “Main Stream Media.” I don't know whether those on Dailykos think that elimination of the kind of analysis and reporting of the “New York Times” is something that would make for a better world, or that their partisanship is so intense, that they feel they can win over the new voters from the Youtube set.

I made a short video of Obama's response to the question of Same Sex Marriage that you can see on, you guessed, youtube. He brilliantly deflected the question so it appeared that he was both for same sex marriage, and for civil unions, which is a substitute and a lesser form of same sex marriage. But he did make one bold statement, that he believes that it is up to the various religious denominations to decide what marriages they will recognize.

That was a clear unambiguous comment, that seemed forthright and meaningful, except for one minor detail. There is not now, nor has there ever been, on the state or federal level, any suggestion or proposal different from his stated belief. No one who supports SSM would require the Catholic Church to sanctify it, nor would any opponent of this take action against such, intrinsically non-meaningful, sanctification of such a union by a religious order.

And without a follow up that asked whether a church that sanctified the marriage of a thirteen year old to her older cousin should be legal, the emptiness of his statement remained unchallenged. When he finished, I noted a quick gulp, as in, “ I really got away with this bull shit”

But he did, as did most of the other candidates who quickly learned how to play the youtube debate game. Meaningless answers, that sounded good no matter how politically or fiscally impossible gained points towards the goal, which was winning the debate. So, Bill Richardson said that illegal immigrants, I guess that means anyone who managed to get across the border, should be entitled to full medical treatment of whatever existing disease they have. And Kucinich would remove our troops immediately, ignoring the consensus that such a logistical project would take over a year to avoid putting our troops at greater risk. And surprise, everyone was for diplomacy rather than war.

And then there is John Edwards, ever doing battle against poverty. He asserted that only he could effectively go against the insurance companies and HMOs as he had done this very thing during his career as a plaintiff's lawyer. No one followed up by suggesting that he was actually playing a part in the existing system, in that he took the most egregious, profitable, and winnable cases, while he opposed systemic changes that would have provided more broad based compensation to injured persons.

From reading this so far, it certainly seems like I am attacking the entire slate of Democratic candidates, reasonably leading the reader to believe that I support the Republicans, that they will be more forthright, more probing and analytical in their responses. Are you kidding? Based on previous debates the Republicans have, if anything, even less dedication an unvarnished exploration of the issues.

The subject of this essay is the anti-intellectualism of this particular variation of an already defective concept of “debates” by large groups of candidates. I actually applaud Obama for mastering the medium so quickly. His delivery was adroit and well executed. I'm sure he knew that what he was saying was meaningless, especially since the federal government has no part in defining the nature of the civil unions that he espoused.

But he succeeding in deflecting a difficult question into an affirmation of something the audience agreed with. The fact that it was irrelevant to the actual question went unnoticed. This is worth points in this game show.

The line of political discourse that flowed from ancient times to their incarnation in the new world by orators such as Hamilton, Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy, has about ended. It has been superseded by the strand of entertainment nurtured by the cool, (meaning no brain work required,) medium of television. This debate was from the line of quiz shows, wrestling and beauty contests. With this "debate" the descent into vacuity has accelerated by connecting with the interactive internet. Now we have a presidential election built on the values of “American Idol” where the candidates have become the contestants.

Seemingly without objection the candidates have accepted being turned into grist for attracting viewers to the ultimate reality show. Gail Collins actually had a serious column in the New York Times last week suggesting we vote off the “loser” after each debate. And why not. Their personality, their demeanor, their sense of humor is everything. Everyone in the national audience can phone in their choice, just like everyone can vote for who wins the final prize.

Entertainment and politics, which should be different spheres of activity with different goals and values, have merged- but only for a while. Soon there will be no toleration, and certainly no benefit for a candidate, in risking turning off their audience with a full expression of the complexity and challenges we face. It will be all entertainment, all charm, all creating the image of certainty in the face of danger.

I write this not in the expectation that any more than a few will read it. It is out of frustration and sadness to what I remember as the great excitement of being a part of the democratic process. From learning to read, to studying government, to engaging in politics at many levels, it has been a wonderful gift from people unknown. I have tried to keep up my side of the bargain, to be engaged and to understand the issues.

One of the candidates on display Monday could well have the fate of our country, and of the world, in his or her hands. It is our job to get the information that allows us to make the best choice. In making this decision, we are acting in the solemn capacity of citizens of a democracy, not audiences in a reality show. There is a vast difference; or at least there should be.

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IMO, the news from the debate

was that Barak Obama made a big mistake in saying that he would talk personally to Castro, Almadinnajad, etc. without pre-conditions. Just for the sake of talking. It sounded real foolish and HC's response only served to emphasize that fact. He appeared experienced and I still can't believe a top-tiered candidate (even in the Democratic Party) could think and say this kind of thing, which will come back to haunt him and may even hurt his chances of becoming the VP nominee under HC.

name the enemy, win the war

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His mistake was in the structure...

As this was entertainment first, and serious discussion only as a part of the content, mistakes are essential to grab audience.

There is a cost in this process. Expressing the kind of nuance that is essential to governing, and especially in international relations would not connect with the audience.

Short affirmations indicate decisiveness, which is all that most of the audience remembers.

Just how would Lincoln have responded if asked his position on slavery. Unless he learned how to say nothing in a decisive way, he would have earned hatred or disinterest among the YouTube voters of his day.

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This is pertinent to a couple of diaries

I'm going to link another diary's thread to this discussion, because it seems very pertinent to how we as a people interpret what candidates and politicians say, and how sometimes we seem to want to have our cake and eat it too. We demand the type of YouTube answers you describe in your diary, yet we complain when we get them.

For example, in the link, there is a discussion of how the Administration did not talk about oil being a strategic factor in the Iraq war. Why didn't they? For the same reason Lincoln would not be able to expound on his ideas about slavery today: in our age, complex topics are avoided for the easy and simple public answers.

"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran

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thanks for linking this diary...

I spent a lot of time on it, and I decided that putting it on my usual venue, dailykos, would be a waste. You must connect with their pre-existing values, or you are rejected.

Our democracy has devolved into two separate planes of discourse. Integral to oil being a reason for war in Iraq is our plans for a long term military presence. This has been a firm policy from the beginning, with billions being spent on permanent bases, unlike the temporary air strips of previous wars.

These are facts on the ground, not liberal theories. Yet, the Bush administration, until just this week, has presented a mythical story that we were nurturing a democratic government, that by definition would decide their military alliances.

The administration felt so secure in the power of this myth, that they never even convinced their own party. Just yesterday, the house, including an overwhelming majority of Republicans, withdrew funding for permanent bases.

This guarantees failure of any realistic engagement with the world. For arguments sake, let's agree that we should have a military presence in the middle east, that we should have a puppet government that we can use for our own interests.

By not overtly articulating this policy, it would only be implemented if an ideal set of events occured-easy victory, our man is put in power-no indigenous movement to counter him-- Now, even if we were to successfully assert our power and install a puppet government, this would not be supported by even the party that attempted it.

We have the world of myth, each party having their own, and then there is the world of reality, that is left unspoken by all candidates of all parties. The voters never get to know the real agenda, only what the candidates feel will win the election.

As Laural told Hardy- "What a fine kettle of fish we are in"

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Let's explore

I agree, the "power of myth" has been extreme in this Administration, and its failure as a governing mechanism is now coming to bite us all, in that we are losing strategic options and opportunities due to the failure and/or unwillingness to communicate the true complexity to the populace.

Given that, I want to circle back to what you ended with and what you started with: the role of the voter and the seriousness of the process.

We have the world of myth, each party having their own, and then there is the world of reality, that is left unspoken by all candidates of all parties. The voters never get to know the real agenda, only what the candidates feel will win the election.

How much responsibility lies with the voter to cut through the hype?

I am not an advocate of the idea that all voters are empty vessels waiting to be filled by the latest spin. I cling to some idea (ideal?) that people, by and large, still know how to think. Voting is something of a self-selecting process: those who bother to vote probably also have some idea of civic obligation, and a corresponding ability to filter what they hear. The rise of the political blogosphere shows that people are able and willing pursue "the truth" when they feel their government or the media is misleading them.

I hope we are re-entering an age of the more informed populace, one that views the process with all due seriousness. I hope.

"Perplexity is the beginning of knowledge" -- Kahlil Gibran

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Youtube may have been

the format, but what the candidates say remains on the record. Although I am a Republican (ex-dem) I had hopes that Barak Obama might actually move the Dem Party to talk more realistsically about issues. Now he is turning into another disappointment.

name the enemy, win the war

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The death of honesty in campaigns was these words...

"Taxes must be raised, Governor Reagan will not admit this, I just did"

Walter Mondale-

If you notice, when asked point blank, Democrats will not say that taxes must be increased, only that revenues must be raised. The memetic (excuse the jargon) landmines are so numerous that straight talk is deadly.

It is sad, but I actually admire Obama for his skill in what has become a game, and the game is not rationality.

I must recommend this blog article to those who want to explore this issue further, it's not by me.
http://www.progressivehistorians.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1837

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nonsense...

Was Reagan wrong for talking to Gorbachev?

Was Sadat wrong for talking to Begin?

Leaders engage their enemy. The act of talking to their enemy does not condone the enemy's world views.

Obama's answer was the exact correct one.

Hillary's was the tired old juvenile response... "I don't like you, so I'm not talking to you."

We've had 6+ years of take-our-ball-and-go-home diplomacy.

How has that worked out?

All it succeeded in doing was lowering the respect that the world has for the United States.

Reagan called the USSR the "Evil Empire", but still had meetings with Gorbachev. Did you agree or disagree with that?

Anwar Sadat engaged his mortal enemy, Menachem Begin, at Camp David (Kudos to the much-maligned Jimmy Carter, btw). It has resulted in nearly 30 years of peace between Egypt and Israel.

Leaders engage.

That's why Obama will be a more effective leader than Hillary Clinton.. who has shown she has learned nothing from her 6+ years of watching the clusterf--k that the Bush administration calls diplomacy.

Obama gained points with thinking people. HRC lost points.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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good points all

I focused on the defects of the youtube setting, however there is the other arguments, that there was a spontaniaity of questions that would not have been asked.

And the youtube setting does not mean that the candidates will not also be subjected to more serious probing followups at other settings.

And you are right about talking to the "enemies" as being productive, especially when looking at the effects of boycotting them in this administration.

Almost forgotten, is that Saddam was begging to negotiate before the invasion. He was in submission and offered to allow Bush to speak to the Iraqis, uncensored, if he could do the same to Americans. What an experiement that would have been.

Saddam would have agreed to anything and we could have had a bloodless victory instead of a bloody failure.

Yes, talking is good.

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