Friday OT

I'm running a bit short on time, so feel free to edit this as necessary.

McCain is dragging on the campaign trail.

Obama won't use nuclear weapons to fight terrorists.

Bloggers are getting the attention of the national media as major Democratic candidates visit YearlyKos.

Happy Friday.

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Move to Amend FISA Sparked by Judge's Decision

via the WashPo: A federal intelligence court judge earlier this year secretly declared a key element of the Bush administration's wiretapping efforts illegal, according to a lawmaker and government sources, providing a previously unstated rationale for fevered efforts by congressional lawmakers this week to expand the president's spying powers.

So, all the discussions we've had regarding the legality of dubya's spying program are for naught. It was all ruled illegal 6 MONTHS AGO. We never found this out because the ruling was KEPT SECRET.

I don't trust bush43 any farther than I could throw Darth Cheney, but if I had the chance, I'd find the closest speeding bus to toss his sorry butt under.

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Yes

I mentioned this yesterday. The scary thing is that it was the program that was given oversight that was declared illegal. The version with no oversight must've been a huge violation of our rights.

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quick hello

from Chicago! Have so far heard Wes Clark, two Deans (Howard and John), and a few Congressional candidates. Oddly, although this says a lot about me, the only person I'd consider myself starstruck by was the keynote's emcee, Sam Seder. Yeah, I'd rather attend a lecture by him than by the presidential candidates. Priorities!

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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Hey GoRight!

Special gift to you: if/when CSPAN airs the yearlykos panel on Science, some commenter decided to ask the author of a book on climate science specifically about this . I wonder who that could have been?!

No scheduling information yet, but I'll keep people posted.

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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RE: Hey GoRight!

Which part, the whole series or just Landsea?  And the general flavor of the response was?

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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I asked specifically

about the falling out between Landsea and the IPCC, and if the author had any opinions about whether Landsea's concerns were legitimate, whether he overreacted, etc. He clarified a bit of the story and discussed what he thought: you'll have to watch for the rest. ;)

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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We talked about the Mortgage Industry last month

when the sub-prime market started tanking. Well it appears some of our fears are coming true with the announcement that American Home Mortgage plans on closing today and filing for bankrupcy Monday .

Politics, and leadership in general here in the US and around the world increasingly is a mixture of sound and consistent policies and an able and well choreographed presentation to assure the public of the system's continued reliability and viability. That's how it'd worked for many, many generations.

It's becoming increasingly clear that this current Administration only put it's efforts into the Media Presentation aspects of governing. Shame on us, we elected 'em. (well, not me personally, but We the People, and I'm sorry to say that that includes me this time)

I'll try to post more happy stuff. I don't want to be a dark cloud here just before a fine weekend.

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A stunning one-week collapse

Obviously, this is a story of a company that withheld bad news from the investing public until the last possible minute.  I predict that the SEC will be filing some criminal fraud charges against company execs in this case... it's really hard to believe that execs thought that everything was hunky-dory last week, and they are totally out of business this week.

Also, American Home Mortgage was not a subprime lender, which has to give investors pause if they own stock in any lender.  They lent primarily to people with "good credit", the story says, although it also says that the lent in the Alt-A range, which are loans to people with better credit than the subprime loans but worse than "good credit" in general.  Maybe that's the problem-- people think Alt-A = "good credit".   

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yea, that is the scary point.

That the problem exists beyond the sub-prime market. Alt-A is a classification for "prime" mortgages where the lendee either 1) doesn't have any income verification records, or 2) is requesting a loan for a property & financing 100% of the loan. The typical buyer is a good credit risk, but not great.

It's a combination of things too. Many second home purchases (speculators and Donald Trump wannabe real estate moguls) are on Variable Rate loans. If your income doesn't rise to meet the loan rise....

But it isn't just the banks & mortgage companies that are at fault. The lendee's got greedy too and now it's coming back to bite 'em all in the butt.

Market Forces at work I guess.

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Someone explain to me their objection to Obama's Pakistan

....comments..

Seriously.

This is what Obama basically said to Musharraf:

"Do you part in the fight against al Qaeda, or we will do it for you."

to Conservatives:

What is your problem with that statement? It would seem to fit the bill EXACTLY with what you've been preaching all along. If Bush made that statement, you'd be hailing him.

to Liberals:

We've spent the past 4+ years screaming that Iraq is the wrong war... that they aren't the ones responsible for 9/11. Well... the ones actually responsible for 9/11 are holed up in the mountains of western Pakistan. Are we not going to put our money where our mouth is?

Seriously... pro-Hillary types... right-wingers... libertarians... anyone.

Logically explain your objections to what Obama said.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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Are we going to invade every country...

...that fails to take on terrorists in the way we would?  Sounds like the "you're either with us or you're against us" policy of GWB.

I note the following:

1) We don't know exactly where Bin Laden or the top al qaeda leadership is.  I'ts not like we're talking about a surgical strike here, and it's not as if Pakistan knows where he is and has failed to act.  Our best guess is that they might be in the tribal areas of Pakistan.  We'd have to invade, fight the various factions in the tribal areas and hunt around for what we are really looking for with no guarantee of success-- and in the process, we'd alienate a quasi-ally in Musharraf and perhaps turn them against us.

 2) Musharrraf has alternatelty fought and appeased the extremists, but there can be little doubt that he's not an extremist himself, nor is he a fan of the extremists-- he's been the target of several assassination attempts by Islamic extremists.  We may not like or appreciate his methods of addressing the terrorists on his own soil, but in the end, it's not our right to tromp around on Pakistani land.  We do have some political leverage with regards to Musharraf, particularly arms sales, which can be used to put pressure on him to do what we want.

3) We have been responsible for weakening Musharraf politically and by extension strengthening the Taliban in Pakistan and other extremist factions in that country, by weakening ourselves politically with actions that have been extremely unpopular amongst moderate Muslims, particularly our actions in Iraq.  At this point, Musharraf is inextricably tied to us, and our failures have emboldened his enemies.  The best thing we can do is to shore up our own house at this point.  

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No... only the countries where they actually are...

1) We don't know exactly where Bin Laden or the top al qaeda leadership is.....Our best guess is that they might be in the tribal areas of Pakistan

We did in late 2001... Tora Bora. We f--ked up and let him escape.

We are not just "guessing" that they are in the tribal areas of Pakistan. It is a 99% certainty.

2) Musharrraf has alternatelty fought and appeased the extremists, but there can be little doubt that he's not an extremist himself, nor is he a fan of the extremists-- he's been the target of several assassination attempts by Islamic extremists. We may not like or appreciate his methods of addressing the terrorists on his own soil, but in the end, it's not our right to tromp around on Pakistani land. We do have some political leverage with regards to Musharraf, particularly arms sales, which can be used to put pressure on him to do what we want.

You are right in that Musharraf is the best we can hope for in Pakistan.

The statement made by Obama was if Musharraf fails to act. Musharraf may very well make Obama's statement never be anything other than hypothetical.

We'll see.

3) We have been responsible for weakening Musharraf politically and by extension strengthening the Taliban in Pakistan and other extremist factions in that country, by weakening ourselves politically with actions that have been extremely unpopular amongst moderate Muslims, particularly our actions in Iraq. At this point, Musharraf is inextricably tied to us, and our failures have emboldened his enemies. The best thing we can do is to shore up our own house at this point.

On this we are in 100% agreement. My contention is the best way to "shore up our own house" is to get our troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan... right on the freaking border with Pakistan. Put the pressure on Musharraf to act, and by our presence on the border, giving al Qaeda no place to run to when Musharraf does act.

If Musharraf fails to act... then we're in position to push into the mountains. The threat of this happening would be enough to get Musharraf to "get religion" real fast and quit pussy-footing around and cutting deals with the tribes.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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We did in late 2001... Tora

We did in late 2001... Tora Bora. We f--ked up and let him escape.

That's a long time ago. 

We are not just "guessing" that they are in the tribal areas of Pakistan. It is a 99% certainty.

As opposed to southeast Afghanistan, which we control so completely?  Let me remind you that, even counting NATO troops, there is only a fraction of the troops in Afghanistan that there are in Iraq-- and we all know that we don't have near enough troops in Iraq to control that territory.  

My contention is the best way to "shore up our own house" is to get our troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan... right on the freaking border with Pakistan. Put the pressure on Musharraf to act, and by our presence on the border, giving al Qaeda no place to run to when Musharraf does act.

Well, don't you think it would be better for us to do all that we can in Afghanistan before we start throwing ultimatums around to Musharraf?  If I were Musharraf, I'd be offended that somebody was telling me all the stuff that I need to do or else, when I was looking across the border at their half-hearted efforts.

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well..

Well, don't you think it would be better for us to do all that we can in Afghanistan before we start throwing ultimatums around to Musharraf? If I were Musharraf, I'd be offended that somebody was telling me all the stuff that I need to do or else, when I was looking across the border at their half-hearted efforts.

Obama isn't responsible for our "half-hearted efforts" in Afghanistan.

That's the point. Obama is saying that, under an Obama administration, our efforts in Afghanistan won't be second-priority. And he's challenging Musharraf to step up to the plate as well.

Musharraf has been cutting deals with the tribal leaders that are protecting al Qaeda. Pressure must be brought to bear on Musharraf about this... Obama is doing what Bush SHOULD be doing - providing that pressure. As a mere candidate, Obama doesn't have the capability to make such ultimatums behind closed doors diplomatically. His only way to signal his intentions is publically.

Hopefully this gets the topic on the front burner... and makes Musharraf think a little bit.

Is it a case of Obama wanting to appear "tough" on terror? yep. Definitely is.

It is political grand-standing... but the statements are the correct viewpoint on the matter, in my opinion.

To me... it shows that Obama has a proper grasp on the situation.

It sure beats Bush in 1999 during the campaign not even knowing that Musharraf had installed himself as leader following a military coup. ;-)

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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Agree completely!

This puts the spotlight where it should be.

Al Queda in this region is a threat to the destabilization of Pakistan. It is too bad Bush is President because now is the time to squash this.

As I have mentioned before, if al Queda takes over Pakistan, they will have access to nukes. I would say the matter is URGENT.

It is the economy, stupid.

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RE: Agree completely!

Al Queda in this region is a threat to the destabilization of Pakistan. It is too bad Bush is President because now is the time to squash this.

Hold on here.  Aren't you the one who is always whining about how we are telling other countries what to do and not respecting their culture and ways of doing things?  What gives?

In fact, you're doing it right below: The world in general is offended

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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The world in general is offended

by the US telling everyone what to do.

Which is how al Queda came to power in the first place.

Most world leaders are cajoled blackballed and bribed so the US can have their way. One thing corrupt US leaders count on in is other corrupt leaders.

That is why it is so disgusting to see the Iraqi ambassador in his $2,000 suit bough and paid for with US bribes. Without US funds the corrupt govt of Iraq would not get paid.

Pakistan has received favors from the US in return for housing operations that defeated the Soviets in Afganistan..... the warriors that fought against the US are the now famous Taliban. Playing both ends against the middle is coming full circle to bite the US in the ass. I think Barack sees this and wants to stop this dumb game. Good for him.

It is the economy, stupid.

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I think Barack sees this and

I think Barack sees this and wants to stop this dumb game.

By meddling in a brand new country? By issuing more threats?  We dont even have the troops to back up the threats, BTW.

 

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Al Queda is a threat to Arabs, Muslims and Christians

These few extremists are quite bloodthirsty in their methods. They are slicing, dicing and beheading the people in the hills of no man's land, their own brothers.

I think if the US took most troops out of Iraq, and concentrated on this poisonous band of extremists there would be arabs supporting us. No one especially likes these ruthless barbarians, including muslims. The key is assurances that the US efforts are not to occupy a country and take over it's natural resources.

We are already meddling in Pakistan and have been for a very long time. Maybe we should stop making deals with the devil, and instead go after the devils head. The people of Afganistan would be thrilled if al Queda would leave them alone so the US could keep it's promise to help them. If it is not too late.

It is the economy, stupid.

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RE: Al Queda is a threat to Arabs, Muslims and Christians

Ha, this is funny.

I think if the US took most troops out of Iraq, and concentrated on this poisonous band of extremists there would be arabs supporting us. No one especially likes these ruthless barbarians, including muslims.

I don't know, the Tribal leaders in Pakistan don't seem to mind him too much being as they are protecting him and all.

The key is assurances that the US efforts are not to occupy a country and take over it's natural resources.

And we have done both in Iraq as well, but here even YOU are doubting it.  Why should anyone believe you or Obama on that point?

We are already meddling in Pakistan and have been for a very long time. Maybe we should stop making deals with the devil, and instead go after the devils head.

Who exactly is the devil in this diatribe?  Musharraf?  So if you want to cut off the devils head does that mean get rid of Musharraf?

Or are al Qaeda and the Tribal Leaders the devil?  But if that is the case are you saying we have been making deals with al Qaeda?

What the heck are you talking about?

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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If I told you I doubt

if you would believe me.

Just note that we used Iraq to fight Iran, and made deals with Saddam to do so.

Iran was very helpful right after 9/11 in fighting al Queda in Afganistan.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

We used the ISI in Pakistan to make deals with the 'freedom fighters', led by bin Laden to defeat the Soviets in Afganistan. Then promptly left without keeping promises to help the Afgans rebuild up their country, leaving devastation and military equipment. This reckless and arrogant using of various groups and nations to serve US interests and then tossing them carelessly aside has caused what is known as blowback.

It isn't a secret that the bin Laden family was friends with the Bush family. They actually courted the Taliban for a while thinking they could offer a stablizing influence in Afganistan so the US could build an oil pipeline there without fear of it being sabatoged.

Doing deals with the devil relates to the US history of using whomever including people like bin Laden and Saddam Huessein to serve whatever purpose for US interests. That's what the heck I am talking about.

It is the economy, stupid.

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How do you propose we make this right?

I agree with what you say, and in my mind the right thing to do would be to approach those we've wronged and admit we did so. Asking for forgiveness and asking to help them make it right.

That is going to entail talking to some groups that many here in the US as well as on this board refuse to do so. It's a paradoxical dilema.

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Step One

Get Bush and his Old Ways out of office.

Start showing folks the the US is operating in good faith, by honoring international treaties.

Actually work with world leaders, holding summits and discussing world problems.

It will take some time.

It is the economy, stupid.

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Can we do anything between now & Jan '09?

I think our Congress could say something, but it is the Executive branch that conducts foreign policy (that is when Congress isn't controlled by Republicans when there's a Democratic President).

dubya won't do squat. He doesn't need anyone that doesn't bow to his primacy, either here at home or internationally. How'd we end up with a spoiled princess as President? Oh that's right, they STOLE it in Florida in '00 & Ohio in '04.

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What makes you think I object?

Are you pre-judging my response?

What is your problem with that statement? It would seem to fit the bill EXACTLY with what you've been preaching all along. If Bush made that statement, you'd be hailing him.

I actually don't have any particular problem with that sentiment.  My only quibble would be that I already feel that they have been helpful so I see no need to make a harsh statement, but that is a minor point.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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hey

I was asking everyone... not just you.

;-)

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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You were asking conservatives ...

of which I am one.  Since you didn't qualify which conservatives you must mean either ALL conservatives or just the Leaders, you'll have to ask Specter which one it is in this case.

I figured I would just respond in case it was the former!  :)

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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heh

...on this site, I think you qualify as both

;-)

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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Invading Pakistan?!??

Oh, come on!! We can't just go invading country after country. We've already thrown god knows how much good money after bad with our disastrous Iraq war debacle. Do we want to make yet another mess in yet another country. I think not. don't even think of invading Pakistan, Obama, if you're thinking of running for president! We don't need any more mindless wars. One is bad enough as it is, and we've got a long enough history of that as it is.
no more!!

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Speaking of al Qaeda.....

There's a fascinating article over on Wired.com about al Qaeda and their photoshopping skills:

Article here

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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Romney and Hezbollah

JERUSALEM – Republican presidential candidate Gov. Mitt Romney has cited the social welfare network of the Lebanese Hezbollah terror group as a role model the U.S. should copy to help promote "goodness" and "freedom" around the world.

Sections of Hezbollah's social welfare network, including schools and camps, are routinely used by the terror group to indoctrinate students in anti-Israel propaganda, instruct in military tactics and promote Shiite Islamic beliefs, including the waging of a final, apocalyptic world battle against "evil."

The former Massachusetts governor this weekend was asked during a campaign stop in Iowa whether he would renew President Bush's $50 million campaign to combat AIDS in Africa.

Romney said he would and then proceeded to explain the U.S. should aspire to implement the kind of social action network carried out in recent years by Hezbollah.

This is in WorldNetDaily so it must be true, right?

If Romney actually said this, he'll be crawfishing for months.

qui tacet consentire

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It's called Jesus Camp

It is the economy, stupid.

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Sure, I trust them well enough.

I haven't caught them making anything up.  But it IS funny to see you using them as a source.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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WND

carries my fav columnist -- Roy Moore.

qui tacet consentire

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Ewwww boy!!

More pearls of wisdom coming from Mitt Romney's mouth? This I don't believe. Using Hezbollah as a model for the United States to help people get off of welfare?!? What kind of a stupid idea/remark is that?! If Romney really and truly did say that, then he's really not fit to run as President. He's too dangerous, to boot.

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The S&P 500 is once again...

...bouncing around along its 200 day moving average, at right around 1450.   If it breaks thru that level, that would certainly make the correction of the past several days much more technically significant than other corrections in recent months. 

The credit meltdown is clearly spreading, and big names such as Bear Stearns and Wells Fargo are getting caught up in the mix.

My money is in cash and bonds, so pass the popcorn... 

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S&P 500

If it breaks thru that level, that would certainly make the correction of the past several days much more technically significant than other corrections in recent months.

And it did break thru 1450... and collapsed another 17+ points in the final hour of trading, selling off all the way down to 1432.80. The dow jones was -282 n the day, and the nasdaq was -62.

also:

Wells Fargo has stopped issuing Alt-A loans.

Bear Stearns had theoutlook on their debt to negative by S&P.

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Bush Signs Homeland Security Bill

Story here

The 9/11 Commission issued their recommendations in 2004.

Why did the GOP-led congress of '04, 05, and '06 fail to act on this?

Why did it take a Democratic-led congress to get this done?

Bush hails this as a major step. GOP congressmen overwhelmingly supported the bill in both houses, as did the Democrats.

Why did the GOP leadership, and Bush, wait three years to do this?

Some crowing on my part, yes... but seriously...

Some random thoughts:

1) so much for the "do-nothing" Democratic congress

2) Latest Pew Research poll shows President's approval at 29%, congress's at 33%. So much for the constant drumbeat on talk radio about Congress being less popular than Bush.

3) Both Bush and the Congress should see an uptick in approval after this, moreso for the Congress.

4) Even while touting the bill, Bush still added a "signing statement" saying that he wouldn't fund the part concerning cargo screening. Again, Bush using signing statements as a de facto line-item veto. Signing statements need to be rendered unconstitutional. Period. Paging Senator Specter!

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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Because Dems care.

All except my Senator Diane Feinstein who yesterday voted yes to let that idiot Leslie Southwick's nomination get out of the Judiciary Committee and go to the floor of the Senate for a vote.

Hey GoRight....You and I are on the same page with her right now (but for different reasons).

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Dem intransigence when they were out of power! n/t

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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How so?

A bill containing the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission never came up during the '04, '05, or '06 congressional sessions.

So there was no fillibustering by Democrats.

Republicans had the majority... they could've passed this, or at least brought it up for a vote.

Please give an example of "Democrat intransigence" during the final years of the GOP-led congress that led to the 9/11 Commission's recommendation not being made law.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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I was just baiting you. I've got nothin' on this one. n/t

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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Or, no underlying lobby pushing the 9/11 commission report

i.e., no bribes, junkets, or hookers.

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Obama camp issues statement

Full text:

August 3, 2007
To: Interested Parties
From: Samantha Power -- Founding Executive Director, Harvard University Carr Center for Human Rights Policy
Re: Conventional Washington versus the Change We Need

It was Washington’s conventional wisdom that led us into the worst strategic blunder in the history of US foreign policy. The rush to invade Iraq was a position advocated by not only the Bush Administration, but also by editorial pages, the foreign policy establishment of both parties, and majorities in both houses of Congress. Those who opposed the war were often labeled weak, inexperienced, and even naïve.

Barack Obama defied conventional wisdom and opposed invading Iraq. He did so at a time when some told him that doing so would doom his political future. He took that risk because he thought it essential that the United States “finish the fight with bin Laden and al Qaeda.” He warned that a “dumb war, a rash war” in Iraq would result in an “occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.”

Barack Obama was right; the conventional wisdom was wrong. And today, we see the consequences. Iraq is in chaos. According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the threat to our homeland from terrorist groups is “persistent and evolving.” Al-Qaeda has a safe-haven in Pakistan. Iran has only grown stronger and bolder. The American people are less safe because of a rash war.

Over the last few weeks, Barack Obama has once again taken positions that challenge Washington’s conventional wisdom on foreign policy. And once again, pundits and politicians have leveled charges that are now bankrupt of credibility and devoid of the new ideas that the American people desperately want.

On each point in the last few weeks, Barack Obama has called for a break from a broken way of doing things. On each point, he has brought fresh strategic thinking and common sense that break with the very conventional wisdom that has led us into Iraq.

Diplomacy: For years, conventional wisdom in Washington has said that the United States cannot talk to its adversaries because it would reward them. Here is the result:

--The United States has not talked directly to Iran at a high level, and they have continued to build their nuclear weapons program, wreak havoc in Iraq, and support terror.
--The United States has not talked directly to Syria at a high level, and they have continued to meddle in Lebanon and support terror.
-- The United States did not talk to North Korea for years, and they were able to produce enough material for 6 to 8 more nuclear bombs.

By any measure, not talking has not worked. Conventional wisdom would have us continue this policy; Barack Obama would turn the page. He knows that not talking has made us look weak and stubborn in the world; that skillful diplomacy can drive wedges between your adversaries; that the only way to know your enemy is to take his measure; and that tough talk is of little use if you’re not willing to do it directly to your adversary. Barack Obama is not afraid of losing a PR battle to a dictator – he’s ready to tell them what they don’t want to hear because that’s how tough, smart diplomacy works, and that’s how American leaders have scored some of the greatest strategic successes in US history.

Barack Obama’s judgment is right; the conventional wisdom is wrong. We need a new era of tough, principled and engaged American diplomacy to deal with 21st century challenges.

Terrorist Sanctuaries: For years, we have given President Musharraf hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid, while deferring to his cautious judgment on how to take out high-level al Qaeda targets – including, most likely, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri. Here is the result:

-- Bin Laden and Zawahiri – two men with direct responsibility for 9/11– remain at large.
-- Al Qaeda has trained and deployed hundreds of fighters worldwide from its sanctuary in northwest Pakistan.
-- Afghanistan is far less secure because the Taliban can strike across the border, and then return to safety in Pakistan.

By any measure, this strategy has not worked. Conventional wisdom would have us defer to Musharraf in perpetuity. Barack Obama wants to turn the page. If Musharraf is willing to go after the terrorists and stop the Taliban from using Pakistan as a base of operations, Obama would give him all of the support he needs. But Obama made clear that as President, if he had actionable intelligence about the whereabouts of al Qaeda leaders in Pakistan – and the Pakistanis continued to refuse to act against terrorists known to be behind attacks on American civilians – then he will use highly targeted force to do so.

Barack Obama’s judgment is right; the conventional wisdom is wrong. We need a new era that moves beyond the conventional wisdom that has brought us over-reliance on an unreliable dictator in Pakistan and an occupation of Iraq.

Nuclear Attacks on Terrorist Targets: For years, Washington’s conventional wisdom has held that candidates for President are judged not by their wisdom, but rather by their adherence to hackneyed rhetoric that make little sense beyond the Beltway. When asked whether he would use nuclear weapons to take out terrorist targets in Pakistan and Afghanistan, Barack Obama gave the sensible answer that nuclear force was not necessary, and would kill too many civilians. Conventional wisdom held this up as a sign of inexperience. But if experience leads you to make gratuitous threats about nuclear use – inflaming fears at home and abroad, and signaling nuclear powers and nuclear aspirants that using nuclear weapons is acceptable behavior, it is experience that should not be relied upon.

Barack Obama’s judgment is right. Conventional wisdom is wrong. It is wrong to propose that we would drop nuclear bombs on terrorist training camps in Pakistan, potentially killing tens of thousands of people and sending America’s prestige in the world to a level that not even George Bush could take it. We should judge presidential candidates on their judgment and their plans, not on their ability to recite platitudes.

Vision: American foreign policy is broken. It has been broken by people who supported the Iraq War, opposed talking to our adversaries, failed to finish the job with al Qaeda, and alienated the world with our belligerence. Yet conventional wisdom holds that people whose experience includes taking these positions are held up as examples of what America needs in times of trouble.

Barack Obama says we have to turn the page. We cannot afford any more of this kind of bankrupt conventional wisdom. He has laid out a foreign policy that is bold, clear, principled, and tailored for the 21st century. End a war we should never have fought, concentrate our resources against terrorists who threaten America. End the counter-productive policy of lumping together our adversaries and avoiding talking to our foes. End the era of politics that is all sound-bites and no substance, and offer the American people the change that they need.

Barack Obama’s judgment is right. It is conventional wisdom that has to change.

Comments?

To me... this shows that Obama has the chops for the job.

...it also shows that he's not willing to let criticisms run too many news cycles without a response, following the Bubba model that worked so well in 1992.

But that's just me... YMMV.

If the primaries were today, he'd have my vote. He may say or do something over the next year that changes my mind... but nothing in the past two weeks has done so.

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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As a person who has a generally favorable opinion of Obama

...I still think the Pakistan quote is a gaffe.  It's obvious that if we actually knew an exact location in Pakistan where Bin Laden on Zawahiri were holed up, and Musharraf knew, and he refused to act, I would approve of a strike by us.  But that's not the situation.  And that being the case, I feel that Obama's statement is unnecessary and inflammatory, and shows poor judgment.  In politics, it's not always helpful to show your hand, especially when talking about a hypothetical situation.  It's better to keep your options open and keep your mouth shut instead of embarrassing an ally.

This statement today is slightly better in that Obama has changed the wording from "high value targets" to "al Qaeda leaders", but he still has a strawman argument in here because there's no evidence that Musharraf has ever has had a direct shot at bin Laden/Zawahiri and failed to pull the trigger.

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The alternative

Nuke 'em all indiscriminately:

Tancredo: Threaten to bomb Muslim holy sites in retaliation

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo’s campaign stood by his assertion that bombing holy Muslim sites would serve as a good “deterrent” to prevent Islamic fundamentalists from attacking the United States, his spokeswoman said Friday.

“This shows that we mean business,” said Bay Buchanan, a senior Tancredo adviser. “There’s no more effective deterrent than that. But he is open-minded and willing to embrace other options. This is just a means to deter them from attacking us.”

On Tuesday, Tancredo warned a group of Iowans that another terrorist attack would “cause a worldwide economic collapse.” IowaPolitics.com recorded his comments.

“If it is up to me, we are going to explain that an attack on this homeland of that nature would be followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina,” Tancredo said. “That is the only thing I can think of that might deter somebody from doing what they would otherwise do. If I am wrong, fine, tell me, and I would be happy to do something else. But you had better find a deterrent, or you will find an attack.”

Tom Casey, a deputy spokesman for the State Department, told CNN’s Elise Labott that the congressman’s comments were “reprehensible” and “absolutely crazy.” Tancredo was widely criticized in 2005 for making a similar suggestion.

I agree with Casey.

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So much for the "11th Commandment"

Newt Gingrich says 'war on terror' is phony

Rips the administration and Republicans pretty hard.

Is someone laying the groundwork for an entry into the '08 race?

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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If he is he's doing a poor job of it.

I have been a big supporter of Newt but this type of thing puts me off.  My read on this is he is simply trying to differentiate himself, move to the middle, but still saber rattle.  His attacks on Bush's "phoney war" isn'[t saying that there isn't a threat, only that Bush isn't doing the right things.  That's how I read it anyway.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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I really have a hard time believing Gingrich said this...

"We have got to get past this partisan baloney, where I'm not allowed to say anything good about Hillary Clinton because 'I'm not a loyal Republican,' and she's not allowed to say anything good about me, or she's not a 'loyal' Democrat. What a stupid way to run a country."

If I didn't know better, I'd say Gingrich was making a play to be on the ticket.

Clinton/Gingrich '08

lol

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

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It makes sense

Because Newt was so renowned being nonpartisan when he was the Speaker, you know :-P

What is it with the Georgia delegation of the '90s?  First Bob Barr and now Newt have just totally gone off the reservation.  

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Good! Hope he repeats it loud and often!

It is the economy, stupid.

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Just a quick note

to GoRight:

Thanks for sticking around! We (I, at least) appreciate your consistent contributions and participation here even when so outnumbered.

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RE: Just a quick note

What brought this on?

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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Well

the site is supposed to be a partisan debate blog, yet for some reason we have many on the left and only a few on the right/middle/other. Yet you few on the right/middle/other stick around and sometimes (ok, most of the time) hold your own.

Plus, you make me think more often than I care to. :-)

But don't let it go to your head.

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If you keep getting all mushy ...

I'll have to stop giving you such a hard time!  I guess I am just a glutton for punishment here.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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Define punishment :)

It is the economy, stupid.

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:)

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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OMG... someone has broken into missliberties account!

the smiley has no "+" for a nose!  And the impostor is actually engaging in flirtatious discourse with GoRight!

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No, no, no

By punishment, I mean punishment. Nothing flirtatious.

Along the lines of what GoRight defines as acceptable torture that's not really torture.

I think being chained to the floor in a squatting position for 48 hours, with the room temperature at 48 degress, with no food and lots and lots of water, in front of websters dictionary, as a member of code pink turns the pages every half hour, with a Snoop Dog CD blaring in the background would be sufficient punishment.

Said punishment would seem like torture but not be technically defined as torture, by Dick Cheney and the Bush administration's definition and would not be a violation of the Geneva conventions as defined by GoRight. A meal would be provided after 48 hours of fried lizards and fern fronds.

To earn said meal, GoRight would have to use the word, human rights, 48 times in a complete sentence, not violating the rules according to Specter of bad inductive logic. In each sentence, the meaning of human rights is not to be twisted to mean anything but respect for the basic decency of how we treat liberals, democrats, mexicans and muslims, with a specific requirement to use the names of prominent democratic figures, a minimum of five times, as strong advocates for human rights.

That is what I mean by punishment.

It is the economy, stupid.

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Ok we're cancelling the red alert

We may have received some bad intelligence here-- our computer algorithms were tripped up by a missing "+", but misliberties appears to be in full control of her account.  Just in case, we put her on the"no fly list" for a two year probationary period and we will be monitoring her international phone calls, but it appears we can all relax. 

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:+)

No anything put that. I will have to sell my jet.

It is the economy, stupid.

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