How to Make a Difference

Let's face the facts. One man cannot make a difference. At least not by voting, certainly: the probability that your vote will affect the outcome of any election is essentially zero. Maybe by persuasion you can influence a few friends of yours, but big whoop. The probability of changing the outcome is still zero. Maybe your career happens to be in journalism or politics or teaching or somesuch, in which case you can maybe make a bit more of a difference. But, even here, let's be real: how many people enter these fields hoping to "make a difference", and how many actually do? And for those of us whose careers *aren't* in these areas, are we really going to give up our current career to switch to these fields? For those who would say "yes", I have three words for you: severely reduced pay!

Oh, sure, there are always a few people who make it big and do make a difference. But for every Daily Kos or Instapundit there's a million blogs no one reads. Again, the odds are against you.

So let me propose a way of making a difference that (1) isn't a huge amount of effort, (2) will probably *save* you money rather than costing you money, (3) is very effective, especially over the long run, and (4) puts you in good company with the millions of other people who have done it. It's not for everyone -- some people will have good reasons why they can't or shouldn't do it, or perhaps can't do it right now. Some people have already done it (I have), and they can't do it twice. And, unfortunately, it only works for conservatives and not for liberals. Sorry, liberals, but you'll have to come up with your own ideas.

So what in the world am I talking about??

Very simple. Move to one of the following states: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, Wyoming. These states all have one thing in common: they don't have an income tax. And for reasons that need no explanation, that absence of an income tax seems to cause people to flood in like crazy. According to Census figures , 2.3 million people moved to these states from the other 41 states plus DC from 2000 to 2006 -- about 1000 people per day. In fact, the only one of these states to lose population to internal migration was Alaska. Even South Dakota had positive net internal migration, whereas similar neighboring states like North Dakota, Iowa, and Nebraska all lost substantial numbers of people to migration. (Note that I am speaking of *internal* migration, not immigration. Every state in the country had positive net immigration, whereas net internal migration has to add up to zero by definition.)

For comparison, most other states have an income tax with top rates in the 5-10% range. And before you say, "but they're mostly just taxing the rich! That doesn't affect me!", think again. In my former state of residence, California, everyone pays 9.3% on each dollar past about $45K, and 8% on each dollar past about $35K. Or the state I grew up in, Minnesota, where everyone pays 7.05% above about $20K and 7.85% above $70K. A few other choice states with outrageously high state income taxes even for modest earners are Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Vermont, and Rhode Island. Yes, yes, there are some deductions and credits you can claim, and married people get higher brackets, and you can generally write these taxes off as deductions against your federal tax (watch out: this is a good way to hit AMT very quickly in most of these states). But you can still very easily end up paying a staggering amount in income taxes alone.

"But surely the other states make up for these income taxes by having lower property and sales taxes?" Sure, there are a few states where that's true. Oregon and Delaware have significant income taxes, but no sales tax. Colorado has a modest income tax but is generally low-tax in other ways. But for each example like this, there is a state like New Jersey, which has outrageously high taxes of all three types. And sure, New Hampshire may have high property taxes, but it has no income *or* sales tax.

If you live in a high-cost-of-living area like NYC or SF, you might also be surprised at just how *cheap* everything is out in some of these other states. The houses, obviously, and the rent on apartments, surely -- those are the obvious ones. But groceries, utilities, gas, ... you're saving across the board, not just taxes. (Not entirely surprising, since commercial rents are cheaper, too, and businesses can pass on their tax savings to their customers in the form of lower prices.)

"But roads and schools cost money. If these states have such low taxes, they must be terrible places to live -- the government can't afford to do anything!" If you think that, you're probably a liberal, and this whole idea probably won't appeal to you anyway. In any event, many places have high taxes and still have terrible roads and schools. I can speak from personal experience that the roads in California were, with a few exceptions, absolutely terrible. As far as schools go, do you really want your kids going to government-run schools anyway, where their heads will be filled with socialist and environmentalist propaganda? You don't have to be a Christian fundamentalist to think that your kids will be exposed to bad influences in public school -- I'm an atheist and I'd worry too about things like the increasing sexualization of young girls. Anyway -- yes, it's true, low-tax states have lower government spending. This is a good thing. Less money spent on Medicaid and other handouts for poor people. Less money spent on absurdly generous pensions for unionized government employees. Less money spent on busybody regulators.

Really, the problems with these places, if there are any, are mundane ones like: can you find a job there? Do you like the culture and the activities in the area? But these 9 states are all over the country geographically, and their cultures, climates, and economies are quite varied. If you can't find a place you like within those 9 states, I would submit that you aren't trying very hard. Like skiing? NH, NV, and WA might be for you. Hate the cold? You might enjoy FL, TX, or NV (Vegas area this time, not Reno). Want a big plot of land with picturesque mountain views? WY might be just right. Like hanging out with those artsy liberal yuppies even though you hate paying the taxes they always seem to vote for? There's always Seattle, WA and Austin, TX.

And here's what's wonderful about the whole thing. Every time a person ditches, say, New Jersey for Florida, the fiscal hole NJ faces just gets deeper and deeper. The state politicians in places like CA and NJ don't dare take on the powerful union bosses and will eventually raise taxes again instead of cutting spending. For example, NJ just had some big tax hikes after Corzine became governor, on top of several previous ones before that. CA taxes haven't gone up for a few years now, but every year there's a budget shortfall and every year the Democrats propose raising taxes to fix it, while no one seriously proposes cutting the taxes. In any event, every time the taxes go up, the outflow of people speeds up. It's a death spiral. Eventually even the most dutiful taxpaying citizens start asking themselves : why? The people who leave are generally richer than average, while those arriving are often not so rich. The new arrivals pay a lot less in taxes and consume more services. It's a no-win situation.

The no-income-tax states have the opposite problem. They don't get a huge windfall, but I guarantee you that Texas (my new state of residence) will still get a lot more in taxes from me than it'll have to pay out in government services for me.

At the same time, these population shifts hurt the national political influence of the high-tax states. (It is left as an exercise to the reader to go back and see how many of the no-income-tax states are red vs. blue states.) 2.3 million people worth of migration is roughly 3 House districts or 3 electoral votes. It's well known that states like New York have been losing congressional districts for decades, but you might be surprised to learn that California is no longer expected to gain any congressional districts in 2010 , for the first time in its state history.

Conservatives, if you really want to make a difference, ditch those high-tax states already! By staying, you're just propping up the system you hate. By leaving, you are speeding up its demise. If you live in a high-tax state, don't bother trying to change your state politicians' tax-and-spend minds. Hit them where it really counts, in their wallets. Every dollar of yours they don't have is a dollar they can't spend.

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Good post Lordy

Although, I think it's worth saying that roads and schools are not paid for with state income taxes anyway.

Schools are based on property taxes and roads on gas taxes.

But overall, it's very true. People leave high cost areas for lower cost ones. I live in the tri-state area of PA near NY and NJ and our area keeps growing because families from upper middle class to lower class keep coming in to escape the high taxes and costs of living (yes, they DO go together!) of NJ and NY.

It is a death spiral. You're right.

Although, in defense of these highest cost states, it's worth noting that many of them get back between 60-80 cents on every dollar they send to DC. That is wrong.

What is enraging though, as you elude to, is that even if NJ and NY got to keep (or were guaranteed back) the equal value of what they send to DC, they wouldn't cut state taxes, they would simply find new things to spend it on. That is wrong too.

…………

OT: John

Logan having doubts "libertarian democrat". Check out FD....

I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied.
Learn to swim.
Moms gonna fix it all soon.
Moms comin round to put it back the way it ought to be.

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Thanks, KAL

I left my 2 cents and then some to Adam and Logan.

I've pretty much given up on the Dems until they abandon their key activist bases and donors and start to represent the individual in the progressive context.

They are too blind to the harm they cause. Well intended doesn't cut it.

The rank and file voter would warm up to it but the leadership won't go there.

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If only...

Schools are based on property taxes and roads on gas taxes.

That used to be true, but more recently, states have taken over much of the formerly local education funding (causing the funding source to gradually shift from county-level property taxes towards state-level sales and income taxes), and a lot of gas tax and toll money gets diverted to other non-road purposes such as mass transit or even to states' general spending funds.

In CA, the counties used to finance most everything through property taxes. Then Prop 13 came along, and it became really hard to hike property taxes. The counties responded with county-level sales taxes. In the end it was a tax shift, not a tax cut.

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well, that's news

I thought it mostly still worked that way.

Huh. The gradual creep never stops, does it??

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Gas taxes

Here's a good read on the gas tax topic.

For instance, in the early years of the gas tax, many southern states tended to use gas tax revenue to fund public education programs. Today, Texas still funnels 25 percent of its gasoline tax dollars into the Permanent School Fund.

Unfortunately, Texas is not the only state that violates the benefit principle in its taxation of fuel. A 2001 report from the Federal Highway Administration outlined some negligent uses of state gasoline tax revenue (see Table 8).

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Maybe once all you tax-haters move

to these states you can all secede and declare yourselves the new Confederacy.

qui tacet consentire

…………

I used to have some sympathy for that POV

until I started realizing how unhelpful it was. Not only is it unhelpful but it also ignores the demographic realities that LordZ is pointing out.

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Just call me Mr. Unhelpful

It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

This new nation will need a flag:

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

The ugly truth

reveals itself and quaoar is not afraid to speak it.

………… parent

C'mon, you and quaoar

could do more here to engage and discuss, instead of just throwing unproductive jabs...

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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This

is a valid viewpoint of some people who might not see it as an unproductive jab, than an unpleasant reality.

Especially in light of the fact how many Republicans were missing at the Tavis Smiley debate.

And as MS would say, it's all in good fun. Ha ha ha.

Lighten up.

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Check the list of no-income-tax states again (nt)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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It's not the location

its the ideology, which is not exclusive to any particular region.

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There is nothing of substance

to engage and discuss.

The idea of conservatives moving to another state to avoid income taxes reminds me of this:

Link

qui tacet consentire

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Best. Idea. Ever. -nt.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Really?

John mentioned the federal taxes/federal aid aspect, that's certainly interesting to explore . Doesn't break down the way you might expect for the no-income-tax states. I posted some numbers to evaluate property tax rates, school quality, crime, and so on. Puppethead gave some first-hand observations on the consequences of low state spending. And so on... I think people are finding things of substance to discuss.

I mean, if it isn't interesting to you, that's cool, no problem, but I don't see how the "new Confederacy" stuff is really productive (or in any way accurate if you check the list of states). Just my personal opinion.

Anyway, maybe LZ would get additional conservative comments if this piece were also posted at Redstate , or additional discussion from both sides at The Forvm .

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Gosh, Brendan

I love it when you get all reasonable and conscientious ;)

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Yeah, post it at RedState

I'm sure they'll eat it up.

Maybe WorldNet Daily will post it too.

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

why are you like that?

I'll tell you something:

liberals like Brendan and Skymutt do well for the general Left in how they approach matters.

Do you think you help anything or anyone in even the slightest way by being so stand-offish and dismissive about anything and everything that doesn't conform 100% to your world-view?

Views are meant to be challenged and constantly re-assessed. I've been doing that for a long time.

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Why should I take this seriously?

If I had an ounce of sympathy for a proposal that people should move to states where they are more in tune with the government's official policies I damn sure wouldn't be living in Alabama.

I have a hard time discussing the merits of any proposal that suggests resegregating society -- whether the criteria is skin color or tax policy.

If that doesn't make me one of the "good" liberals on Swords Crossed you'll just have to excuse me.

qui tacet consentire

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well, quaoar

you took what I said and applied a little too narrowly. I don't know if that was your intent.

I was speaking more generally about how you answered Brendan on his point about how people choose to approch discussion.

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You are on my 'good' list Q.

I love your point quaoar:

"I have hard time discussing the merits of any proposal that suggests resegregating society -- whether the criteria is skin color or tax policy."

It is a bit disturbing to think that instead of working within the democratic process, which says that the 'unruly mob' will not get their way 100% of the time because our system of government is based on concensus, that folks would choose the 'love it or leave it' option.

This subtle meme of no surrender, no retreat, appeasement equals capitulation embraces a sort of good vs evil quality, that is a source of much partisanship.

I note that along with you, neither I, nor knocienz were on John's 'good liberals'
list. Have we been blacklisted? :#) > implied humor <

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Not really

Brendan and Skymutt just stick out as being far more reasonable and far less ideologically rigid and predictable. It makes for more better discussion.

Besides, Brendan was involved in what I was saying since quaoar was responding to him when I replied.

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It makes for better discussion

according to you.

But that is your own personal bias, isn't it.

In my opinion you come across as quite rigid on how you think everyone else should broach a subject.

Is there something wrong with having a strong point of view, whatever it is? I personally don't think so, and frankly think it makes the discussion more, not less interesting.

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hehehe

Of course it makes for better discussion....unless shouting, arguing and grandstanding is your idea of "better discussion". If so, then go for it.

If I seem rigid, it may be so...but in the way you say. I do tend to be a little rigid on how NOT to tackle topics.

Nothing wrong with strong viewpoints. That's not the issue. It's how one expresses them and reacts to others.

A few of us FreedomDemocrat members like Adam and Kal along with others who don't post here have been having a very interesting discussion about the "libertarian Democrat" idea.

Very strong views but always civil and very thoughful.

………… parent

Did a crosspost...

See here ...

………… parent

It would be a pretty diverse new nation

Those states (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington, Wyoming) are a cross-section of America.

Something for most everyone, as lz says.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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You know, that idea makes a lot of sense

Different people want different things from their state government. Why not find the one that makes you happy? If conservatives don't want to pay state income taxes then bully for them, move to states without income taxes, and help promote that ideology at the same time. I know this piece isn't aimed at liberals but as a liberal I think it's well argued anyway.

Even within the no-income-tax states there is, as you say, a wide variety in characteristics, and more so when the individual cities are considered. FWIW, here are some numbers for each of those states that give some sense for what they prioritize:

State Economic Momentum Property Tax/Income Federal Aid/Capita % Pop. Uninsured 8th Grade Math Violent Crime/100k
US 0.0 3.1 1478 15.1 278 NA
AK -0.2 3.6 3849 17.0 279 634.5
FL 0.7 3.1 1187 20.4 274 711.3
NV 1.8 2.5 929 17.3 270 615.9
NH -0.8 5.1 1243 9.6 285 167.0
SD -0.2 2.8 1768 11.6 287 171.5
TN -0.2 2.0 1523 13.4 271 695.2
TX 1.5 3.8 1263 23.5 281 540.5
WA 0.9 2.8 1325 13.2 285 343.8
WY 2.2 4.3 5373 14.7 282 229.6


Still, blue states are pretty good places to live, although how you weigh the cost/benefits with respect to everything from culture to taxation will obviously depend on your personal preferences. It looks like it costs the average person about $1200/year in income tax (before adjusting for cost-of-living) to live in one of the "nice" blue states like Minnesota instead of one of your options -- about $25/week.

Finally, my instinctive reaction to all this is that it's probably in the interest of any given state to attempt to attract both conservatives and liberals, since they generally contribute in complementary fashion and anyway balance is always healthy. So if I were in charge of a state I'd search for a happy medium between low taxes and sufficient state funding.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

…………

This seems unconstitutional

to me.

Do these states still pay money in some form of taxes to support the military, and the national guard?

In case of emergency how do these no income tax states justify calling in the national guard?

What about Federal Dams that provide water..... do I have to pay for all the water you selfish Texans drink?

Count me on q's side. I hope yall move to Texas and succeed from the union.

…………

MissL,

Do these states still pay money in some form of taxes to support the military, and the national guard?--------

yes, federal income tax. the state income tax stays in state anyway.

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It's just a tradeoff on the state level

Pick one: higher state taxes, more state-provided services or lower state taxes, fewer state-provided services.

That's the beauty of federalism, different states can run things different ways and everyone is happy.

The libertarians and libertarian-leaning conservatives are keen on this, the social conservatives not so much. Hopefully the Republican party will fracture along these lines =)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Dangit.

I don't drink water! Besides, Texas doesn't have a right to secede any more, anyway. And while there's no state income tax, we have an 8ish% sales tax most places, and state surcharges on all kinds of crap. But the lack of state funding for stuff down here really shows. So maybe folks in Blue states who are repulsed and offended by the remnants of the dark side of old school American liberalism might want to come down here for a vacation, and take a gander at the seedy underbelly of the new conservatism.

We've got plenty of underbelly to go around, too. Who knows? It might even turn a few ideologues into pragmatists.

A politician is an arse upon which everyone has sat except a man -- e e cummings

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Thirsty? :)

Surcharges...... gasp! 8% sales tax.... shocking.

So what is showing in the lack of state funding? Just curious.

………… parent

Still better than CA

I pay 8.25% sales tax in Austin, TX. Exact same rate as I paid in San Jose, CA. If you live in San Francisco you pay even more than that.

Do these states still pay money in some form of taxes to support the military, and the national guard?

Actually, my federal tax burden goes *up*, not down, as a result of this move, because I'm no longer deducting any state income taxes from my federal return going forward.

The feds, if anything, should be celebrating the 2.3 million of us who've made the move.

But the lack of state funding for stuff down here really shows.

It does? Just about my only interaction with government services consists of (1) the post office (which is the same everywhere) and (2) the roads (which seem to be *much* better here than in any parts of CA other than Sacramento).

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Sorry, don't see how this 'helps' - Point of Order

Do you really think California has missed your departure? Remember, the start of this diary is that one person voting isn't going to change anything (and that very few are going to convince a lot of votes)

So how is this different? What impact has your departure had on California and Texas? No including the impact of mass migration as that holds for voting too.

Would a better name for this diary not have been "If you aren't going to make a difference, at least pay less income tax (with related offsets with either higher other taxes, or lower services) while you do it"?

…………

Ha!

Good call on that Point of Order.

………… parent

I agree, in part

My impact on California by leaving was small in the picture of the entire state budget, sure. But:

1. the impact is still much greater than any impact I'd make by voting
2. the impact compounds, and probably grows (assuming my income increases), year after year, without my having to really do anything
3. there are ripple effects -- I've shifted economic activity from CA to TX, causing jobs to shift from CA to TX
4. you don't know what my income is, so you don't really know whether the impact is large or small
5. ignoring myself -- there are very literally a large number of individuals who *can* singlehandedly blow a hole in the CA budget by leaving the state. Quick math: someone earning $100M/year (and there are a number of folks who fall into that category) would blow a $10.3M/year (10.3% income tax rate above $1M/year) hole in the budget, from income tax alone. That's enough that they'd actually have to cut a program or two simply because of your departure.

………… parent

Interesting Comments

It's funny how we each twist this to fit our preferred views.

I read this as federalist issue, perhaps cloaked in rightwing verbiage, but since it's LZ's piece that is to be expected.

Being able to live where local people control local aspects (taxation, spending, legislation) is at the heart of our governmental structure. If you don't like Kansas, move to Texas. If you don't like Texas, move to Oregon. That's the whole point of "these united states." That does not make Texas or Oregon objectively better; they are just different, as they are intended to be, and as they should be. Each one of us makes our choice of where to live based on our own unique set of requirements, but let's not be arrogant enough to say that your personal set is definitive.

The other point LZ makes that I like is the idea that you can and should vote with your feet. This is so analogous to the "don't shop at WalMart" paradigm that I'm somewhat surprised at the left-leaning reaction in these comments.

Interesting diary and great comments though.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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Most people I know

don't move for political reasons, they move because of friends, family, job or climate combatability.

It is a bit shocking to see how vastly different laws are from one state to the next, and it can create problems if you are just passing through.

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Thanks purpleface, agree completely (nt)

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

Voting with your feet

Is an interesting analogy but I am not sure it holds up.

Buying or renting new house, packing up your years of household goods, finding a new job and new schools for your kids is a little different than just not driving your car to Wal-Mart.

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Not really

When circumstances dictate a move, one can move. Those are just excuses. The same kind of excuses people use for shopping at WalMart when it conflicts with their value system: it's too far to go elsewhere, it's not convenient, I have too much else to do, takes too much time, the kids won't sit still, etc.

We moved constantly as kids as my father's jobs relocated him from place to place. My eldest brother attended 14 schools in 12 years of primary education; I attended 7 different ones. So yes, it's hard, but not that hard.

You do what you have to do. If taxation (and the related elements such a high cost of living, scarcity of jobs, shortage of affordable housing, etc) is affecting your life, then you need to do something about it. Sitting in one place and bemoaning the lack of opportunity does not solve the problem. (I'm not saying that you are saying that, BTW. Just a general editorial comment;})

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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I think MissL's point is that it's easier to avoid Walmart

than to move. That point is fine but it doesn't explain everything.

For as much of a hassle as it is to move, people do it all the time and in great numbers. I live an area that is constantly growing from people escaping the NYC metro area. They move to save money and improve the quality of life for them and their children.

In this sense, people are voting with their feet.

………… parent

Moving is hard work

Not shopping at Wal-Mart is easy.

………… parent

And yet

many continue to shop there while they grumble about the company.

Either they complain about it thru impersonal altruism while happily continuing to shop there OR they really hate it and do it grudgingly because it's too much of a hassle to always find an alternative.

I personally know people who always gripe on a soap box about Wal-Mart but do almost ALL their shopping there.

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The only people I know

that shop there are the extremely poor, who think that Wal-Mart is the best thing since sliced bread. (I work with the extremely poor btw, so I know of what I speak)

It is less of a choice than it is a sheer convenience, for most of these folks, many of whom are so poor that they rarely drive because they can't afford the gas.

As for myself, I haven't put my big toe in a Wal-Mart in years. I hate the place and everything it stands for.

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Different folks, different strokes

Where I live, EVERYBODY seems to shop there for one reason or another.

I see many non-poor people at my Wal-Mart.

I generally don't go there for grocery shopping and never for clothes.

But I do go there for more specialized "odds and ends" purchases or expensive purchases when I know I won't find the same thing for cheaper somewhere else.

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Nothing wrong with shopping at Walmart

I'm far from poor, but when it comes to the day-to-day essentials, I go to Walmart and Costco. No sense in paying more than I have to, when it's the exact same stuff everywhere.

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Pick Costco over Walmart

For many liberal reasons, but for one conservative reason: their stock is going up while Walmart's is down, so they're making money for investors and that's probably an indication that they're a superior business ;-)

Charles had some comments on buying name-brands versus store-brands. Might as well save money when there's no difference in quality.

I shop at Wegman's because I like their food -- they have all kinds of stuff that I can't find at Walmart, for example. I also like their business model (they consistently get very high marks for employee satisfaction) so I don't mind paying a little more.

But on your overall point I agree.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Yep

Well, if I want *good* food, there's always Whole Foods... it's just that some stuff really is the same everywhere.

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Pf, I find it now but this

i cant find it now but this comment reminds me of a research summary I read on how people react to elements in articles whose authors or overall conclusions oppose their biases. The research found that readers tended to oppose facts, logic and ideas that they would agree with if written in a sympathetic article or by a sympathetic author.

…………

I have an idea ^-^

Someday, someone here should try that and see what happens. Rewrite the diary, keeping the same facts but changing the cloak, and the color bar.

Might be fun ;}

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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I believe the research.

I actually already observe here and there. It was really funny, the researchers said that reader subjects would go as far as to say that certain facts within the articles were untrue simply because they were used to support opposing arguments!

People amaze me.

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What is really amazing

Is politicians that have to navigate this minefield of human fraility, to try and get elected.

Isn't this a clear indication that people vote with their guts and not with their heads.

Or as Stephen Colbert would say it isn't the truth, it is the 'truthiness' not the actual facts, but folks gut feelings about the facts that matters most.

I suggest that this is why good leadership is taking a position that is unpopular and showing folks why it is what they should vote for.

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I dunno...

For the most part, I've always tended to believe that voters are guided more by emotional rather than cerebral motives.

That's not to say that facts don't play a part but I do think that facts, when they are indeed facts, tend to only be thoroughly internalized and accepted when they reinforce emotional biases.

A good analogy I like here is to consider that a man has a belief that elevation is the key indicator to average temperature and not global position.

Sure, there are many real "facts" that support this idea...like snow on mountain tops while it's sunny and warm at the foot hills in a generally warm part of the word.

However, these "facts" do little to explain why it's probably warmer RIGHT NOW in some mountain village in Guatemala than at sea level in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Obviously some facts matter less than others depending on the issue. This becomes harder to discern in the less obvious world of politics and social sciences.

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I want to move to Galt's Gulch...

....Atlas Shrugged reference for Ender. ;-)

I survived the Bush Administration

…………

I have a cool idea

regarding that :) Tell you later.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Why Later?

Don't leave me hangin' man...

I only hang out at SC for an hour or two a day now.

;-)

I survived the Bush Administration

………… parent

it's a private idea

that is gonna take a week or two to develop... So once I do (if I do) I'll let you know because it might be something entertaining to do. :)

Is your email on SC your regular email?

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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email

Change the end part to "@comcast.net" and you have my regular email.

I survived the Bush Administration

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ok dude

sent you an email.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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