70,000 Britons expected to escape the NHS this year.
promoted by john
Record numbers of Britons are travelling abroad for medical treatment to escape the NHS - with 70,000 patients expected to fly out this year.
And by the end of the decade 200,000 "health tourists" will fly as far as Malaysa and South Africa for major surgery to avoid long waiting lists and the rising threat of superbugs, according to a new report.
The first survey of Britons opting for treatment overseas shows that fears of hospital infections and frustration of often waiting months for operations are fuelling the increasing trend.
Patients needing major heart surgery, hip operations and cataracts are using the internet to book operations to be carried out thousands of miles away.
India is the most popular destination for surgery, followed by Hungary, Turkey, Germany, Malaysia, Poland and Spain. But dozens more countries are attracting health tourists.
Research by the Treatment Abroad website shows that Britons have travelled to 112 foreign hospitals, based in 48 countries, to find safe, affordable treatment.
Almost all of those who had received treatment abroad said they would do the same again, with patients pointing out that some hospitals in India had screening policies for the superbug MRSA that have yet to be introduced in this country.
Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, said the figures were a "terrible indictment" of government policies that were undermining the efforts of NHS staff to provide quality services.
The findings come amid further revelations about the Government's mishandling of NHS policies, and ahead of official statistics that will embarrass ministers.
On Wednesday, figures are expected to show rising numbers of hospital infections. Cases of the superbug Clostridium difficile, which have risen five-fold in the past decade, are expected to increase beyond the 55,000 cases reported last year.
On the same day, statistics will show that vast sums have been spent on pay, with GPs' earnings rising by more than 50 per cent in three years to an average of more than £110,000.
New research shows that growing NHS bureaucracy has left nurses with little time to see patients – most spending long periods dealing with paperwork.
Katherine Murphy, of the Patients' Association, said the health tourism figures reflected shrinking public faith in the Government's handling of the NHS.
"The confidence that the public has in NHS hospitals has been shattered by the growth of hospital infections and this Government's failure to make a real commitment to tackling it," she told The Sunday Telegraph.
"People are simply frightened of going to NHS hospitals, so I am not surprised the numbers going abroad are increasing so rapidly.
"My fear is that most people can't afford to have private treatment – whether in this country or abroad."
Low prices in India, where flights, hotels and a heart bypass cost less than half the price charged by British private hospitals, explain its top ranking in the survey by Treatment Abroad, a British website providing information on hospitals overseas.
Hungary's popularity rests on a boom in dentistry, thanks to a shortage of NHS dentists in Britain.
The British Medical Association advised people to be careful when considering treatment abroad, highlighting the dangers of flying soon after surgery, which can cause complications.
A spokesman said: "Travelling can place a great deal of stress on the body. Patients travelling abroad for surgery should consider their fitness to fly and get an understanding of an appropriate convalescence period before attempting to return home."
A Department of Health official said the number of patients seeking treatment abroad was a tiny fraction of the 13 million treated on the NHS each year.
So again, I'd ask, why would we want to model are healthcare system after this?
Oh...and the unintentionally funny ending. (Original Article)
Waiting times had fallen. Almost half of patients were treated within 18 weeks of seeing a GP. Most people who had hospital care did not contract infections.
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Comments :
So what's the problem, exactly?
Here's another way to think about it:
People in this country who can't afford healthcare get none. People who can get whatever treatment they can afford.
People in England who can't afford healthcare have access to the public system.
People who can get whatever treatment - in whatever location - they can afford.
In both cases the people with means are getting the healthcare they're willing to pay for. But in our system, the people without are getting nothing. England's seems like a net gain to me: although I do agree that the state of England's hospitals, based on what's in that article, seems pretty dismal.
By the way, notice that among the most popular health tourism location is - drumroll! - Cuba. So people from wealthy countries are seeking out socialist medicine from former Communist states.
It gets better: apparently a quarter of the patients in Baja (Mexico) are Americans crossing the border for medical care
. This is the fact that opponents of socialized medicine who cite numbers of patients getting care elsewhere fail to acknowledge: the large numbers of Americans who are doing the same. It's huge
! And the wealthy going to places that provide healthcare for all, like India and Cuba (well... not so many Americans going to Cuba, for obvious reasons, but that hasn't stopped it from being one of the major destinations for health tourism).
So I'll flip your question back at you: given that the multi-billion dollar health tourism industry is going towards nations with socialized (or close to it) medicine, how is that a good argument against it?
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
PICO....
Source? It wouldn't surprise me that Cuba gives good care to foreigners for the PR aspect, but there have just been too many lies
perpetrated about their system to take anything on face.
With 40-50% of expenditures from this country coming from govt, personally, I think we're pretty close to socialized medicine, and that's sadly one of a few things that are wrong.
You're probably under the mistaken assumption that I believe that the system we have is the best way to go. I don't believe that, but I do find the the problems of Canadian Healthcare & the NHS to be very telling (and exactly as we'd predict). We're already seeing the shortages....we've only begun to see a drop in the quality of care.....70,000 people. You can handwave all you want, but it's a big deal.
Some replies:
You're right that the propaganda machine in Cuba is strong. I hope the BBC is a more acceptable source: here's an article on Cuban health care
, including coverage and medical tourism. I'm not so naive to think that Cuba is some kind of healthcare paradise, but let's not reject their system outright. They seem to be turning a tidy profit out of it.
I think you answered a different question than the one I posed in that second quote: health tourism is going towards countries with a high level of socialized medicine. Why is universal-health-care-offering India the mecca of British patients fleeing the horrors of universal health care? Could it be that it's the particulars, not the concept, that's causing the problems? Could it also be that, regardless of what level of involvement the government has in its nation's health, there will always be people who will travel - whether across the street or across the world - to get better or more affordable care?
That's why I don't see this as a problem. I see the quality of the NHS services to be a problem, and in that area I agree with you. But medical tourism? It's always been around, it'll always be around.
Incidentally, the UK does have a private health care system, but quite a few patients go abroad anyway. Why do you think that is?
Heck, you've got a strong contingent of Americans going to Europe
, especially Germany
, which nonetheless has one of the most expensive
healthcare systems in the world. So again, I don't see this as a mass failure on the part of socialized medicine: the movement's generally from wealthier countries to less wealthy countries, regardless of the system of healthcare in either.
Elsewhere Ezra Klein argues the reverse
of your post:
You're welcome to take it with a grain of salt, since it's Ezra Klein.
Now, there's a good argument to be made that the low costs of care abroad has a lot to do with escaping regulation and the premiums on malpractice insurance. Fair enough.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Finally....
Really? Medicare, free clinics, emergency rooms should cover about 99.9% of the people who can't afford it. I'm sure there's an anecdote of someone slipping through the cracks, but this is largely an imagined problem.
The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act
(EMTALA) requires all hospitals to treat all patients who seek treatment in their emergency rooms–regardless of ability to pay. In fact, it is a standard practice of American hospitals to triage ER patients before asking any question about insurance or any other non-medical issue.
EMTALA = emergency conditions only.
If you want to limit the discussion to emergency conditions, that's fine, but it renders the article moot: the patients seeking healthcare outside the country are, almost without exception, not seeking immediate emergency care (for obvious reasons). The medical procedures that health tourists are seeking - which may involve conditions that are life threatening, but not immediately so - are generally inaccessible for the uninsured in this country. [update: here's a study
that discusses medical access for the uninsured, with plenty of links]
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
You're right, but there are dots that can be connected...
Not distinguishing between the want and need...is precisely what gives rise to these conditions and I think it's at the heart of the matter........and as a result, you're seeing a loss of confidence in their system.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1285546,00.html
We ration too
How many people die because they can't pay under our system? How many people have to wait until their illness gets so bad that they go to the emergency room, which raises costs for everyone?
The NHS uses waiting lists. We use ability to pay. I'll take the waiting list any day of the week.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
It's rationing for now....
it's quality of care in the future (which we're beginning to see as noted by the Britons interviewed in the previous article and in the skynews link.) Nationalized healthcare doesn't address costs, it simply shifts them.
But ATQB, you might say, it's taking the profit out of healthcare which allows healthcare to be a fraction of what it costs here. According to Public Citizen
(in a very sympathetic report entitled "Hefty Pharma Company Margins Dwarf Other Industries"), profits for the pharmaceutical companies were $36B in 2002. Healthcare costs were $1.3Trillion. That's just over 2% attributable to drug company profits (nevermind the positive incentives that profits provide to produce better treatments and more cures.)
I don't know, but I can't imagine a survey among doctors so dismal as the NHS one. So the situation we really are in is that we need to address costs. People leave the NHS because of care conditions (which have deterioriated due to the shifting of high costs) and they leave our system due to high nominal dollar costs.
The Committee for Economic Development recently released a report entitled "Quality, affordable, healthcare for all: moving beyond Employer Based Health Insurance." Their core findings on costs were:
http://www.ced.org/docs/report/report_healthcare200710.pdf
So how to address costs? Our system is doing a poor job as well all know. You won't find me among it's advocates. What we must realize is that it's not this system or socialism. There are other routes. I attempted to address that in another diary.
Oh...and a question for you.....
I see your political compass score, but you always struck me as as principled Federalist as well (a rare combination.) Why not in this case?
You misunderstand me
Is universal health care constitutional on a federal scale? Not bloody likely.
I prefer it on the state level. Why California or Massachusetts can't get it done, I have no idea. Once 38 states have it in place (and here's the kicker) everyone can see how much better it is than what the other states have, they should propose an amendment.
Federalism at it's core is about the idea that a state can experiment with public policy and serve as an example to other states of what works and what doesn't work.
I should probably be more vocal as to whether or not I'm talking about my state positions or federal positions. Everything is straight in my head when I type, so I assume that everyone else knows as well :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Thanks for the clarification...
I thought you were still principled....Just making sure.
or we can see how much it sucks ;-).....
This right here:
That is a sign of a failing system, no doubt. And naysayers may be right that it's an inevitable danger with increased bureaucracy. I certainly don't have a solid response to that.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
I would be curious what drugs they aren't
prescribing. Especially since over prescribing anti-biotics as a panacea 'cure all' has caused a super bug effect, or staf infections that are resistant to anti-biotics.
I'm only half stupid
Isn't your assumption either wrong or evidence of foolishness?
Let's assume that you are correct and Free Clinics and ERs cover 99.9% of people who can't afford health care (I don't accept it as true btw), wouldn't that mean we are already providing soclialized medicine... but in an incredibly suboptimal fashion? Starting treatment of heart disease at the time of stroke or heart attack is too late. The results are typically either death (your assumption would then be wrong) or an immensely more expensive treatment and recovery effort (pennywise, pound foolish)
BTW, do you know anyone from a country with socialized medicine or is this just an NIH issue (Not Invented Here)? My wife is from Belgium (Ranked 16 places higher than the US by the WHO in health care) and she is plenty exasperated with the US health insurance industry, I really have no idea how to respond to "What the heck does the Insurance company have to do with it? The doctor should be making the decision", particularly while the insurance company repeatedly delays efforts to get a close friend timely treatment for a massive infection.
I don't think so....
Yes, we are providing socialized medicine in a suboptimal fashion (as stated elsewhere) though I'm not opposed to preventative care in my system as proposed here.
http://www.swordscrossed.org/node/1702#comment-73588
Another piece of preventative is that Americans must live healthier and no healthcare system will fix that. If you did install a socialized system with a combination of our unhealthy lifestyle, I think it would make the situation more dire than the worst affects in terms of care and waits in Britain.
I am amused
that insurance companies are suddenly on a 'get healthy' campaign, motivated to have folks seek out healthier choices, and shy away from junk food, precisely because such an overwhelming number of people are getting diabetes because of their eating habits, and because this pervasive problem could eat into their profits.
I'm only half stupid
Yup. But hey, whatever works, right?
Private companies are also providing incentives for employees to be more healthy (by quitting smoking, for example) to save $$ on insurance and costs.
I don't much care what the motivation is, the result of a healthier society is a nice outcome.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Agreed
Oh the irony.
I'm only half stupid
How many americans are medical health tourists
Bet a lot.
I know many going to other countries to have liposuction, facelift, plastic surgery, etc where it is cheaper.
Estimates range
from 150,000 to 400,000 and upwards. I guess it also depends on what gets classified as medical tourism.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
That smile is from Mexico
a lot of folks go to Mexico for dentistry.
Even folks that have health insurance in the US often are not covered for dental.
And I hear plastic surgery in Brazil is the latest craze.
I'm only half stupid
Their Healthcare system costs them
0.41 cents to our dollar. For every dollar you spend, they do the job for less than half the price.
How many Americans had procedures done in Mexico? I live in N. Cal and I know several people who go down there for many things. Mostly Dental surgeries (Root Canals & Crowns) but they go for other things too. There's a whole cottage industry on travelling to far away places & getting "work" done on ya.
Exactly
That's the nail in the coffin for me as far as socialized medicine/universal health care is concerned.
We spend twice as much per capita as they do, but they cover everyone. I like socialized medicine because it covers everyone and because we could cover everyone for less money. It's the same way with student loans. The feds can give out loans at pretty much whatever the prime rate is, yet we subsidize the interest on private Stafford loans at about double prime. It just doesn't make fiscal sense to say nothing about other concerns.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Bad premise leads to faulty conclusion couched as a question
Nobody wants to model the US health system on the UK. Nobody. Because the UK system is pretty definitively broken. As compared with say France's system which is world class, blowing ours out of the water.
By the way, despite how broken the NHS is the UK still does better than the US on almost every measure, and at less than half the cost. So while no one is suggesting we use the UK system it would still be a step up for us, there are just better steps to take.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.