Reminds me a little of myself...

From David Freddoso :

Why do I live like this? It’s really just because I’m cheap as hell and way too busy to care about things like “being comfortable.”

I pretty much fall into the same category. Despite my ownership of a "Pave the Whales" T-shirt, I probably have a much lower "environmental impact" than many self-proclaimed "environmentalists." I live in a modest 800 sq ft 2-bedroom apartment and don't crank up the heat or AC very much. I own a fairly fuel-efficient car ('03 Toyota Corolla) and have a very short (2-mile) commute. I replaced all the bulbs I could with compact fluorescents just after moving in. I don't have a giant TV, and it's usually off: I only use it to watch movies from Netflix. My computer burns about 170W, including monitors and everything, but it's usually in standby. I don't buy much stuff and generally don't spend much money: the stuff I do buy is mostly the basic life essentials from Costco and Walmart. I don't eat out much, and for health reasons I generally cook my own meals rather than eating packaged/processed foods; I reheat the leftovers for the next few days, so nothing goes to waste.

Now, do I give a flying frick about the environment? Not really. I'm just cheap, and I happen to think that a lot of the stuff that people buy isn't really that important -- people seeking status (keeping up with the Joneses, impressing the opposite sex, conforming to social norms, etc.) rather than genuine fulfillment (doing stuff that *you* like and *you* enjoy, not because you think someone else will like you for it). Now, if I happened to obtain genuine fulfillment from driving a stretch Hummer limo all across the country, rest assured, the environment would be the last thing on my mind. It's just that I'd rather, say, play the piano than drive a Hummer from here to Saskatchewan and back. Not that I have anything against Saskatchewan...

The Prius infuriates me. It's only modestly more fuel-efficient than comparable non-hybrid cars, and it's so obviously a status symbol -- how else to explain the success of the Prius as compared to the failure of the hybrid Honda Civic? Could it be that the Prius is popular because it *looks* unique, so that everyone *knows* that you're making a "green" statement, rather than because it's fuel-efficient? Somehow I suspect that the sales of the Prius would be many times lower if it looked exactly like my Corolla. Anyway, if you *really* care about the environment, then maybe you should move from your 4000 sq ft house 30 miles from where you work to a more modest 1500 sq ft place a little more nearby.

In the end, if people want to spend money on status symbols like the Prius to try to impress each other, though, big whoop. It doesn't impress me, I don't care what other people think, and it's not really any worse than people spending money on a Porsche or BMW. What gets me is when those same people want to tell *me* how to live *my* life. Sorry, Al Gore, but if you want to call global warming a "moral issue", clean up your own act first. Don't give me this garbage about "carbon credits." Instead, get back to me when your electricity bill is under $50 a month. Heck, even under $100 a month.

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And this was frontpaged why, exactly?

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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relax :) it's all in good fun

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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If you don't want to talk about

conservation as an act of rational self-interest rather than an imposed moral imperative... then by all means write a diary on what you would like to discuss =)

Personally I find the stuff about the individual decisions people make interesting -- it's why I promoted CLC's diary asking who owned a business , for example.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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I'm sorry Brendan

but there is no "there" there. The diary boils down to this: I feel like I'm less impactful on the environment even though I have no proof for that and so other people should shut up.

Saying it is about "conservation as an act of rational self-interest" is like calling Dogs Playing Poker a dissertation on the duality of man.

As a comment in an open thread it'd be fine. As a diary it'd be pretty weak. But frontpaged? There's just nothing there.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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I heard a report on TV (might've been CNN)

but they said exactly that about Prius. People wanted others to know they are driving the hybrid, that they are holy and stick it into everyone's face and which is why Honda hybrid flopped.

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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I don't follow

If people want to buy the car because they think it makes them look morally superior why would the Honda hybrid flop?

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Because it's not visually identifiable

The Civic hybrid looks like a plain old Civic, with a little extra "Hybrid" thing added to the logo. (Or at least the old one did... I think they have a newer one now that is a little more different) I saw one once and thought that if I hadn't noticed that logo, I never would have realized that it was a hybrid.

The Prius looks completely different than anything else on the road. You're not just buying a car, you're making a statement to everyone else on the road!

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Isn't that why many cars are bought?

Why do you think people buy Hummers?

qui tacet consentire

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It's a different standard

In LZ's defense, the people who buy hybrids and the like are the kind of people who ostensibly eschew conspicuous consumption. The Hummer crowd makes no attempt to hide the fact that their purchase is done to compensate for the size of their genitals.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Well......

As the proud owner of a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid, I'm happy to say that I love the way I save gas (I only need to gas up once or twice a month, depending on how much driving I'm doing at a given time or times. It not only looks fabulous, but it's anything but a flop.

Thanks for that question, Brendan.

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Hondas

My dad, who said he'd take a bike to work before he bought anything other than a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury ended up buying a non-hybrid Civic this year. It's much roomier than he thought and can carry around a family of 5 quite nicely. This includes 2 car seats for a 3 and 1 year old.

I'm interested in the Smart Fortwo after my gifted '99 Taurus runs its course. The Fortwo should get better mileage, but it's at least cheap enough that I could afford it used.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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What's interesting...

...is that I don't see very many Priuses in parts of the country outside California. I figured Austin would have a bunch of them these days, being a fairly liberal city and all, but it doesn't look that way. I never see them in Minnesota either. In San Jose it was starting to seem like every third car was a Prius by the end.

One could make a disparaging statement here about Californians being all shallow and status-obsessed, but I'll refrain.

Obviously one other reason they've sold so many in California is that you used to be able to get a carpool lane sticker with a hybrid car. (No longer, though. The sticker allotment was all used up and they're not issuing new ones.) But you could have gotten the sticker with your Civic hybrid too...

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LordZorgon is being just a bit of a jackass

One could make a disparaging statement here about Californians being all shallow and status-obsessed, but I'll refrain

Or perhaps you ran low of insult credits instead?

One could make a disparaging comment about lordzorgon being a sanctimonious idiot, but I will refrain.

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C'mon

You're free to disparage Californians, Texans, or whatever, but please try to avoid insulting other posters... even if en passant via a threatened future action.

Edit: hmm, the comment changed slightly as I wrote my response. I'll leave the request up, doesn't hurt to remember we're all friends here...

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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But I'm from California

And therefore I was being insulted.
I really don't get why it is OK to insult millions of people in an offhanded way, but it is off limits to insult someone for specific, well defined reasons.

Chat if you want to discuss in detail

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Hmmmm......

according to the broadbrush insult rule....... it's okay to slam, the South, or New Yorkers, or Texans, etc. but calling one person on their specific positions is a no no?

Pretty sure lz is a big boy and can handle himself without interferance. After all he's a Texan.

The tone of lz's post, is a generally insulting, so why act surprised if someone responds in kind.

edit: this was supposed to be a response to Brendan's comment, not yours.

It is the economy, stupid.

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'z all good

Brendan and I cleared it all up in chat

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x zell ant

It is the economy, stupid.

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oops

It is the economy, stupid.

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South Park nailed it w/ 'Smug Alert"

"Kyle's father Gerald buys a new hybrid Toyonda Pious, (lol!), and drives around showing it off to everyone; he then begins an unwelcome campaign to convert the other townspeople to environmentally friendly vehicles. He has started to annoy his friend Randy, who complains that Gerald now preachily talks with his eyes closed, and that he almost likes the smell of his own farts. Deciding that they cannot live among such backward attitudes, Gerald decides that the family must move to San Francisco...."

link

Politics is a clash of interests masquerading as a clash of principles. – Anonymous

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hahaha nice one :)

I found it online! Watch it here!
hahahaha smug alert
hahhaa smug leads to global laming!

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Glad I don't live in the People's Republic of CA any more...

This has way too much of a "Five-Year Plan" ring to it.

At today's public meeting in Diamond Bar, the agency will consider how to divide the state's greenhouse-gas sources into six economic sectors: electricity; local initiatives and land use; transportation; business and industry; agriculture; and forestry.

Or, they could just impose a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system and then disband... but then these useless bureaucrats would be out of a job.

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Al Gore

I agree with you to a certain extent about Al Gore and his own use of electricity. However, I do believe the world is in a much better place right now, as regards our energy future, than we would be if Al Gore had not decided to "spread the word," so to speak.

Carbon credits are a rich man's way of avoiding conservation, and as such are not exactly my cup of tea, but they fit in pretty well with this capitalistic world we live in. They are certainly better than nothing, and if done properly (i.e. to fund projects that would not otherwise have been accomplished), then they are much better than nothing.

Gore also doles out the extra bucks to his electricity company for "renewable energy," which at least helps to fund additional research and development of renewable sources.

And so what if a Prius is a status symbol? So is a Hummer, but I'd much rather see a bunch of Prius's driving around my town than a bunch of Hummers!

As regards your own lifestyle, therein lies the truth that is finally beginning to emerge: it makes economic sense to live an environmentally friendly lifestyle. Hurrah!

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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If it makes economic sense, then you don't need to force it

it makes economic sense to live an environmentally friendly lifestyle

That may be true, at least in part, but if so, we don't need to pass laws to force people to do things they'd do anyway. All we need to do is impose a few taxes on externalities (e.g. a carbon tax) and then rely on the market price mechanism to work its magic.

What we don't need is a huge pile of laws micromanaging our lives and our economy and our energy production and consumption. We don't need a mandate that 20% of electricity come from "renewable" sources, and we don't need gas mileage regulations. If/when renewable energy sources become economically viable, they will catch on quickly with no government help. And we've already observed several times throughout history that changes in gas prices *do* impact peoples' car-buying choices, without any need for regulations to *force* people to buy smaller cars.

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Carbon tax

I don't particularly disagree with you. A carbon tax would go a long way towards making the costs associated with a non-eco-friendly lifestyle more obvious. Of course, it is not an easy thing to determine the actual cost, and from that derive an appropriate tax scheme. I personally suspect that any tax passed is far more likely to underestimate the actual costs (you may very well disagree), so I don't have any problem with supplemental regulations such as renewable energy mandates and gas mileage regulations. If the tax is appropriate, then the additional regulations will not be an issue anyway. But if the tax was underestimated, then the additional regulations will make up for that error.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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How do you know whether the tax was underestimated?

...and if you knew that, then wouldn't the obvious solution be to raise the tax?

I actually don't have a problem with using taxes to implement environmental policy, as long as it's made revenue-neutral by cutting other taxes.

Of course we could also eliminate the home mortgage deduction. Because a dollar of tax deductions is more valuable the more you earn, and because you can borrow up to $1M and still get the deduction, right now the government is heavily subsidizing the purchase of large/expensive houses by rich people.

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Re: How do you know...

Well, if by 2050 Manhattan is underwater, the tax was underestimated!

(Joking, a bit.)

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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You obviously don't have children

Anyway, if you *really* care about the environment, then maybe you should move from your 4000 sq ft house 30 miles from where you work to a more modest 1500 sq ft place a little more nearby.

What you are doing in is suggesting that the way you live is correct and everyone else is wrong, without examining why people might decide to live somewhere other than a downtown loft.

I live about 20 miles from work in a large house. The reason? I have kids. I live where I live because it is in one of the best school districts in the state.

I drive a Toyota Tundra, a big truck that gets lousy gas mileage. The reason? I used to build houses for Habitat for Humanity and needed it to haul materials. I'd get rid of it now that I no longer build for Habitat but it's paid for.

qui tacet consentire

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No, I'm not suggesting their way of living is "wrong"

I *don't* care about the environment, so if someone chooses to live in a big house, drive a big car, and have a lot of kids, that's fine with me -- until and unless they start advocating for laws to force everyone to change their lifestyles to "save the planet."

Of course, everyone wants to pretend that those laws won't have any impact on anyone's lifestyle -- we can have our cake and eat it too! Renewable energy will be so cheap that we won't even want to use coal! Mandatory "green" building codes will save people so much on heating and AC that they'll pay for themselves! Etc.

But the reality is a little different, especially when you start looking at these "80% emissions reductions by 2050" proposals people are now talking about. CO2 emissions reductions, especially of that magnitude, *will* impact peoples' lives in fairly significant ways. The article I linked to points out one obvious one: say goodbye to most air travel.

If on one hand you want to see those 80% emissions reductions, and on the other you want to maintain your current lifestyle with no modifications, you are in for a surprise.

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