Two criminal defense attorneys knowingly allowed an innocent man to serve 26 years in prison because they were bound by attorney-client privilege from revealing that their client committed the crime. What’s the ethical thing to do, here? What would you do?
My answer: reveal that I knew the man was innocent, if possible without implicating my client but if necessary by betraying his confidence, and then resign from the bar and be prepared to face any additional consequences.
Sort of like if a priest hears a confession about a murder: I'd give a similar answer, try to convince the guy to turn himself in but if he won't then betray his confidence and give up office in the church.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice your career to do what is necessary (not even saying it is obviously right, there is a genuine ethical dilemma there, but I do believe it is necessary.)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
-- A vast array of pharmaceuticals -- including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones -- have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an Associated Press investigation shows.
Officials in Philadelphia say testing there discovered 56 pharmaceuticals or byproducts in treated drinking water.
To be sure, the concentrations of these pharmaceuticals are tiny, measured in quantities of parts per billion or trillion, far below the levels of a medical dose. Also, utilities insist their water is safe.
But the presence of so many prescription drugs -- and over-the-counter medicines like acetaminophen and ibuprofen -- in so much of our drinking water is heightening worries among scientists of long-term consequences to human health.
..the more i see that libertarianism may not be all that bad. After all, if the Federal(sic) Oversight(sic) Organizations(sic) aren't going to bother monitoring lead and asbestos in toys, and drugs in the water (don't care if its 'just a little bit'), why have them around?
Well, I guess I can just move back to Mississippi and drink from my grandma's well, right?
Rural consumers who draw water from their own wells aren't in the clear either, experts say.
Darn you experts! Well, I guess that means I'll have to join the Bottled Water Revolution and keep my PUR filter changed often.
Even users of bottled water and home filtration systems don't necessarily avoid exposure. Bottlers, some of which simply repackage tap water, do not typically treat or test for pharmaceuticals, according to the industry's main trade group. The same goes for the makers of home filtration systems.
Dah well. I guess I can just drink a lot of water whenever I have a headache, or need to express my sensitive side.
baby with the bathwater isn't it? Just because the current administration does not focus on regulation and safety issues (the FDA has been politicized for example) does not mean that regulation does not work and we should discontinue it (what, are the companies going to regulate themselves when it comes to water?). It means we need stricter enforcement of current regulations and new regulations if necessary.
The current administration's plan was to strangle regulation of businesses on purpose so we would be duped into conclusions like yours (called 'drowning the government in the bathtub ').
This guy is off his hinges! He's been tripping over himself since he got into office. yeah, he'll probably resign tonight or tomorrow. I'm now preparing to say Gov. Patterson.
Skymutt and I are planning to get together for lunch this coming Friday, March 14, at Abuelo's in Easton at 1PM. Anyone who is close enough to join us is welcome to join in. ATQB? Others? If you want to meet but this time is not good for you let us know and maybe we can adjust accordingly.
If you are interested you can contact me by sending email to my throw away email account at skymutt@nym.hush.com.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed! -4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4
We won't be able to hear ourselves shouting at each other over the roar of rollercoasters.
Seriously, though: that would be a fun meetup spot. I'm eager to get to Cedar Point this summer, too, because I got this job thing I applied for, so I'll be leaving Michigan at the end of the summer. Let's make this happen!
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
I am not ordinarily a planner but if we are serious about this and knowing how social things work we should pick a target timeframe ASAP to just have a placeholder on people's calendars. Maybe pick a date along with one alternate as a backup. All subject to change if needed. Thoughts?
I am thinking June would be a good month. We also need to decide on the day of the week. Weekends have the advantage that they don't conflict with normal work schedules but they also suck for going to amusement parks. Would a weekday even be an option for you guys, maybe a monday?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed! -4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4
Weekend of June 7, 2008 as the primary date, and weekend of June 14, 2008 as the alternate. We can firm things up as they get closer, or change if needed. Default day would be Saturday which leaves the option of a second day for anyone who might want it because they didn't get all those coasters in.
No last minute cancellations allowed! :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed! -4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4
If I take some dramamine, I can handle the medium-sized ones, but the big ones are too scary for me :-) The water rides are more my speed. But I'd go up to Cedar Point and hang out if we got a few people to come, sure.
so I always run straight to the Power Tower , which is (for my money) the scariest ride at the park. That and the maXair, which is so awesome in its simplicity, but has be screaming for help by the end.
After those two, the rest is cake.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Columbus is a hell of a drive from Sandusky since I'm unemployed and gas prices are high. I'd love to stop by, but it doesn't work for just having lunch.
There are certainly a lot of us here from Ohio, I've noticed. ATQB, me, you, and Skymutt apparently.
I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd I'm listening to...
I can imagine the GOP making some tough calls about Senate campaigns in purplish states, given their anemic fundraising for this year, but to not take even a token stab at one term democratic senator Pryor in Alabama is rather surprising.
It is probably a function of a dysfunctional local GOP party. I probably shouldn't read more into it than that. And yet, I snickerer.
WASHINGTON - The House Judiciary Committee sued former White House Counsel Harriet Miers and White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten on Monday, setting up a constitutional clash over the Bush administration's refusal to provide testimony and documents about the firing of U.S. attorneys.
The lawsuit says Miers is not immune from the obligation to testify and that she and Bolten must identify all documents that are being withheld from Congress regarding what Democrats say were politically motivated dismissals of nine U.S. attorneys.
In a statement announcing the lawsuit, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers said, "We will not allow the administration to steamroll Congress."
Conyers, D-Mich., said he is confident the federal courts will agree that the Bush administration's position is at odds with constitutional principles.
Comments :
Moral dilemma of the day
My answer: reveal that I knew the man was innocent, if possible without implicating my client but if necessary by betraying his confidence, and then resign from the bar and be prepared to face any additional consequences.
Sort of like if a priest hears a confession about a murder: I'd give a similar answer, try to convince the guy to turn himself in but if he won't then betray his confidence and give up office in the church.
Sometimes you have to sacrifice your career to do what is necessary (not even saying it is obviously right, there is a genuine ethical dilemma there, but I do believe it is necessary.)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I couldn't really blame the attorneys for their non-actions,
but I have to agree with you on what would have been the most moral solution (even if it's not ethical.)
For more info,
it's worth checking out the comments section
of this post over at Volokh.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Floating towards libertarianism...
The more I see stories like this
:
..the more i see that libertarianism may not be all that bad. After all, if the Federal(sic) Oversight(sic) Organizations(sic) aren't going to bother monitoring lead and asbestos in toys, and drugs in the water (don't care if its 'just a little bit'), why have them around?
Well, I guess I can just move back to Mississippi and drink from my grandma's well, right?
Darn you experts! Well, I guess that means I'll have to join the Bottled Water Revolution and keep my PUR filter changed often.
Dah well. I guess I can just drink a lot of water whenever I have a headache, or need to express my sensitive side.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
That's right
Best to stick to alcoholic beverages. For safety reasons =P
The tiny amounts they've found don't sound serious to me.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Kind of throwing out the
baby with the bathwater isn't it? Just because the current administration does not focus on regulation and safety issues (the FDA has been politicized
for example) does not mean that regulation does not work and we should discontinue it (what, are the companies going to regulate themselves when it comes to water?). It means we need stricter enforcement of current regulations and new regulations if necessary.
The current administration's plan was to strangle regulation of businesses on purpose so we would be duped into conclusions like yours (called 'drowning the government in the bathtub
').
Even the FDA admits(pdf) the above.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
Ugh... Eliot Spiter involved in a prostitution ring????
Damn... I really thought that guy had a great future. Does not sound good :-(
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
Spitzer should resign
Just like David Vitter and Larry Craig did.
Oh wait....
Seriously, Spitzer, Vitter, Craig and Rep. William "Dollar Bill" Jefferson should all have the decency to resign.
qui tacet consentire
What the Heck?!
This guy is off his hinges! He's been tripping over himself since he got into office. yeah, he'll probably resign tonight or tomorrow. I'm now preparing to say Gov. Patterson.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
Dunno what happened to him :-(
I thought he did great work as NYAG. Meh, fooled again, I guess. Hard not to be a cynic in this world :-(
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
Don Boudreaux on the Spitzer affair:
see here
.
Historic SwordsCrossed Meet and Greet in Columbus, Ohio.
Skymutt and I are planning to get together for lunch this coming Friday, March 14, at Abuelo's in Easton at 1PM. Anyone who is close enough to join us is welcome to join in. ATQB? Others? If you want to meet but this time is not good for you let us know and maybe we can adjust accordingly.
If you are interested you can contact me by sending email to my throw away email account at skymutt@nym.hush.com.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Ohio is a happening place
We expect a full report and what you ate for lunch!
I'm only half stupid
Meeting the mighty pillar of conservatism that is GoRight--
a rare privilege indeed :-)
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
I'd join you but it's a little far
gotta be at least a 6 hour drive from eastern PA.
Understandable.
Maybe next time we'll meet in your neck of the woods!
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Just out of my range,
at least for a weekday. I'm 3 hours away.
Maybe next time?
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Hey, are you up Michigan way?
And Stinerman is in Sandusky. So maybe we could plan a Cedar Point get together this summer?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Sounds great
I'll be happy to play host.
I HATE Cedar Point, but I can play goodwill ambassador to the SC faithful.
Keep me in the loop.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Great idea!
We won't be able to hear ourselves shouting at each other over the roar of rollercoasters.
Seriously, though: that would be a fun meetup spot. I'm eager to get to Cedar Point this summer, too, because I got this job thing I applied for, so I'll be leaving Michigan at the end of the summer. Let's make this happen!
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Cool. I agree, we should be able to make this happen.
Hey skymutt, are you a roller coaster fan?
EDIT:
I am not ordinarily a planner but if we are serious about this and knowing how social things work we should pick a target timeframe ASAP to just have a placeholder on people's calendars. Maybe pick a date along with one alternate as a backup. All subject to change if needed. Thoughts?
I am thinking June would be a good month. We also need to decide on the day of the week. Weekends have the advantage that they don't conflict with normal work schedules but they also suck for going to amusement parks. Would a weekday even be an option for you guys, maybe a monday?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Weekends are fine for me,
as is the first half of June. After the 20th I'm a little less sure.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Pencil in those dates!
Weekend of June 7, 2008 as the primary date, and weekend of June 14, 2008 as the alternate. We can firm things up as they get closer, or change if needed. Default day would be Saturday which leaves the option of a second day for anyone who might want it because they didn't get all those coasters in.
No last minute cancellations allowed! :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Roller coasters ain't my thing
If I take some dramamine, I can handle the medium-sized ones, but the big ones are too scary for me :-) The water rides are more my speed. But I'd go up to Cedar Point and hang out if we got a few people to come, sure.
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
I am terrified of heights
so I always run straight to the Power Tower , which is (for my money) the scariest ride at the park. That and the maXair, which is so awesome in its simplicity, but has be screaming for help by the end.
After those two, the rest is cake.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
I haven't been to Cedar Point since the '70's.
And I know that they have some big coasters worth checking out. Don't worry pico, I'll ride 'em too! :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4So close...
Columbus is a hell of a drive from Sandusky since I'm unemployed and gas prices are high. I'd love to stop by, but it doesn't work for just having lunch.
There are certainly a lot of us here from Ohio, I've noticed. ATQB, me, you, and Skymutt apparently.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Hey, who said I was from Ohio?
Officially you guys have no idea where I live. :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4No GOP challenger for Dem senator... in Alabama
I can imagine the GOP making some tough calls about Senate campaigns in purplish states, given their anemic fundraising for this year, but to not take even a token stab at one term democratic senator Pryor in Alabama is rather surprising.
It is probably a function of a dysfunctional local GOP party. I probably shouldn't read more into it than that. And yet, I snickerer.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.
Arkansas
Not Alabama.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
House panel sues White House officials
story
There are probably some very unhappy judges at the moment.
I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.