Friday Open Thread
Protests in Tibet result in two deaths. So much for China's newer, softer image approach before the Olympics.
Due to Bear Stearns bail out, investors are bailing out . Do you think it is wise for a brokerage firm to have the word 'Bear' in its name?
How are you today?
Submitted by Specter on Fri, 2008-03-14 10:31
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Comments :
This is Hilarious
While posting the Jeff Flake piece last night from reason.tv, I also watched this piece
.
The kid's got balls. LOL.
Party on, mate
Is that real? Sounds like the Australian Onion.
qui tacet consentire
Bail Out
American Voices:
Question: The Federal Reserve announced that they would be setting up a $200 billion program to assist struggling banks. What do you think?
Answer (from Lynn Fitzpatrick): "Giving money to institutions that failed at their only job, which was to have money, may not be the best strategy."
h/t The Onion
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/
The Wrong Lizard
Friends,
I'll be doing my own blogging stuff over at The Wrong Lizard
, a Wordpress-based blog I just started.
There isn't much there, but keep an eye on it in case I say something particularly interesting. I'd be much obliged if an admin could add it to the "member blogs" area along with the others.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Yea, I got your message.
Looking forward to it! Be sure to cross post or at least provide pointers from here too as a reminder though! :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4NP
I added you to the "blogroll" section, but it doesn't seem to be listed anywhere on the page...I'll have to investigate futher.
Update: Found it.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Excellent, and done
I love the name and the Adams excerpt that goes with it.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
It was the Carlyle Capitol Corp default
that caught my eye.
After looking it over I was less so, but still, The Carlyle Group
is a very exclusive group. It functions like a limited partnership for it's very few members. The Bush family, the Saudi Royal family, James Baker to name a few. Very important and very saavay business folk.
But then I learned that the Carlyle Capitol Corp was kind of a spin off, not wholly owned by the Carlyle Group yesterday. Carlyle Capitol Corp had an IPO in the late spring last year so after that, the main Carlyle Group members diluted their holdings and liabilities.
Surprising none the less.
Who saw Jon Stewart last night?
I usually watch it on the 8 pm showing the next day, but the good folks over at C&L
were nice enough to give us this taste and it is funny.
Jon uses Bush's speech at the Gaylord Opryland resort for fun and fodder. Worth the 4 minutes.
This thing with Obama and his pastor
is becoming toxic.
The stuff about 9/11 was bad enough but the "god damn America" comment is just poison.
Obama has to do more than say they have different opinions. He has to leave that church.
qui tacet consentire
why? Did anyone say the same thing about Robertson?
How about Oral Roberts? Jerry Falwell?
Barack is not responsible for the guy. He shouldn't have to apologize for something he himself never said nor was he even in the audience to hear.
Saying he found the Pastors comments distasteful and not to his beliefs is fine for me.
Of course if you want to link all us liberals to the brazen lies of dubya and Darth because we're all Americans too....well that would be about the same thing.
Look at the Preachers that McCain has been hugging lately and what they have said.
In fairness,
we do say that about Robertson, Roberts, and Falwell. And McCain's embrace of Falwell is going to play again and again during the general election cycle, don't worry.
Not saying that the scrutiny of Obama's pastor is a right or wrong thing, just that's it's not an uncommon thing.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Noted anti-semite Billy Graham
a welcome guest in many a White House. A pastoral adviser to many.
Noted white separatist and anti-semite Pat Buchanon is welcomed as a frequent host on the cable news.
I guess it's okay if you are white and were a part of Nixon's inner circle.
I'm only half stupid
So why do you hate Christians?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4The inquisition lives on....
March in lockstep
I'm only half stupid
Falwell is a sleazy bigot
I would never vote for anyone who was tied to Falwell or a member of any of his organizations.
What I find most amazing is that there are actually people defending Wright. I was listening to a radio talk show host last night justifying "god damn America" and arguing it has to be taken in context.
There is no larger context that ever makes it OK to say that and still expect to be elected president of the United States.
qui tacet consentire
Wright
does not expect to be elected president of the United States. And Obama did not say those words. So where's the issue?
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Ferraro
does not expect to be elected president of the United States. And Clinton did not say those words. So where's the issue?
Just because you think it is ridiculous to hold the words of a supporter against a candidate doesn't mean it won't happen. I didn't say it was right or that it was justified or reasonable in either case. I am saying that it will be done.
That's how it works.
Ferraro says something incredibly stupid and the opposition jumps all over it. She should have known better and she had to resign her role with the campaign. Clinton was not fast enough or forceful enough in repudiating what Ferraro said and it hurt her badly.
qui tacet consentire
OK
I agree with pretty much everything you say here.
And I didn't say it won't happen. I'm just saying it is not and was not a real issue, and people shouldn't be swayed by it. ("Shouldn't" not "Won't")
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Barak Obama and his wife were
members and a part of Wright's congregation for many years. Obama has called Wright his spiritual advisor. It may be true that Obama never heard the videos of Wright we are now seeing on TV and the internet. But I kind of doubt it. This will definitely hurt Obama's image with the general electorate.
name the enemy, win the war
Bah.
Leave that church? Why?
It is just ridiculous to hold responsible every member of a congregation for every word that their pastor says. Tell me, how many seconds of Wright's sermons have you listened to, and how many hours (days?) worth of sermons do you think he has given? Who are you to judge whether someone should leave their church?
Wright is retired now anyway, so again, why should Obama leave his church?
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Agreed
We are deciding whether to elect Barack Obama for President. We are not deciding whether to elect Barack Obama's pastor for President.
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
I don't think it is that cut and dry.
If Obama wants to put on his spiritual face then the attitude of his spiritual leader seems relevant to me. I agree that Obama is not responsible for what this guy said, but on the other hand Obama was looking to him for guidance and if this is the type of attitude the Pastor had then it seems a fair question to ask how much Obama was actually influenced by this guy. Especially when coupled with statements from his wife that "this is the first time she has been proud of America."
Now Obama is naturally going to say he doesn't agree with this type of stuff, but then again racists try to claim that they aren't racists, right? Or at least the liberals tell us so. Ergo simply denying it is not sufficient to prove anything.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4I only have to listen to 10 seconds
of Wright's entire life's work -- the 10 seconds where he says "God damn America."
If you don't think those 10 seconds won't be played over and over and over and over again in the fall, you're delusional.
Who said reason and fairness have anything to do with it? You think because something is ridiculous it won't kill off a campaign? Remember the Swift Boaters?
Yes, Obama needs to do more than condemn the remarks. If he wants to be president, he needs to leave the church. Because being associated in even a remote way with a remark like "God damn America" is absolutely lethal.
Wright has put him in the position where he has to choose between his church membership and his presidential ambitions. It's not fair, but American history is littered with presidential campaigns shot down by underhanded, sleazy, low, disgusting, unfair, ridiculous and stupid things.
What difference does it make if Wright's retired now? When was the last time Geraldine Ferraro held office? Doesn't stop people from using things retirees say to hammer their opponents.
qui tacet consentire
These type of things come up every election
The only things that tend to stick, though, are the things about the candidates themselves. For instance, Jim McDougal was under indictment for Whitewater-related activities during the 1996 campaign. Bill Clinton was a partner in some of those activities. But this really did not stick during the campaign, because Bill Clinton was not charged with a crime. Would Bill Clinton have been served by making all manner of proclaimations of innocence about Whitewater? Would Bill Clinton have been served by publicly condemning Jim McDougal? Doubtful.
The Swift Boat stories, though they were outright lies in some cases, were about Kerry. If a candidate is a central player in a story, they must confront that story differently than when the story has more of a guilt by association theme.
Barack Obama has already made his statement on this issue. The pastor is retired. So tell me this-- what is going to keep this story going? What new information is going to keep the media interested in this story? The answer is: nothing. There's nothing to keep this story fresh, and so if Barack just keeps referring back to the statement he's already made, it will go away. If McCain brings this up in the general election, Barack can point to the fact that McCain is going back on his pledge of keeping the election positive and on the issues.
Just wait a week or two, and see if this story is still alive. I predict not.
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
Are you serious?
That's easy. 527s.
Of course McCain won't bring it up. He doesn't have to. Did Bush ever bring up the Swift Boat garbage?
What keeps the "Obama is a secret Muslim who refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag" emails alive despite repeated denials, stories debunking them and nothing "fresh" to fuel them?
There is no crying in baseball and there is no fairness in politics.
qui tacet consentire
Won't work
A 527 ad on this subject, that is. It won't be effective. It's not about Obama or something that Obama did. Besides, they could do such an ad whether Obama quits his church or not, in fact, it looks worse if he quits his church. What does it say about a man that he would quit his church over a political campaign?
I sincerely hope that he does not heed your advice.
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
If I were attending a service
at the church where I have been a member for 20 years, where I was married and where my children were baptized -- and the minister said "god damn America" -- I would stand up, do a 180, walk out and never return.
Now, if church members became outraged over that and repudiated the minister I might stay.
I didn't hear any booing from the congregation Wright on that tape. I wonder how other church members feel about what Wright said. Do they support him? Do they agree with what he said?
You think it would look bad to take a principled stand against a man who condemns America? On what planet?
qui tacet consentire
HOw is it terribly different than what Ron Paul says
about our foreign policy
Wright was saying nearly the same thing as Ron Paul, but in more colorful language. That the US actions have consequences, are costly and have blowback.
HOw is it terribly different that Republicans say they just "hate" government, or hate paying their damn taxes. Isn't that our country they are speaking of in such damning terms.
Last I checked Ron Paul was pretty popular.
And gathering from the County Delegate Convention I just attended, whatever wrath you hold, is not shared by the overwhelming number of Obama supporters who roared their support, and were shockingly mostly not black..
You are so offended by the Iraq War, you are willing to 'dam GWB', which some find the equally unpatriotic.
YOu can't paint Barack Obama with every word the preacher of a church says, nor can you hold Catholics accountable for the crimes of their childmolesting priests.
Too bad they don't run a Jim Hagee speech on cable news for 24 hours, every ten minutes, so we can all "love' our country and start a war with Iran.
I'm only half stupid
If I were attending a
Okay-- and maybe you are someone who would actually do this-- but most people, even highly principled people, aren't going to have that reaction to this kind of speech. I can vehemently disagree with something that someone says and still associate with them and still even associate myself with other things that they say. People amount to something more than the last few words that have come out of their mouth.
How is it a "principled stand" to leave the church now? If he left the moment the pastor said what he said, then yes, that would be a very principled stand (although, as I say, showing up someone in public like you say you would have is very very rare behavior). If he leaves now, it's not a principled stand, it's a transparent cave to public pressure.
skymutt: accept no substitutes!
It's a good test for him
He has to walk a line between appearing to throw Wright under the bus but still clearly renounce the extreme statements.
Unlike some of the smears floating around, this issue was going to come up in the general. Better to deal with it now.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
He's given a pretty good answer
And quickly
:
Regarding leaving the church:
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Regarding your first quote ...
and yet this is the first time his wife has been proud of America, right? Denials are simply not enough, as I point out above, the racists deny that they are racists too ... or so the liberals tell us.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4If denial is not enough
...than what is? If I were to claim that McCain is seeking to achieve the End Times, Armageddon and all that, how can he prove that is not the case?
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Whatever proof the liberals will accept as proof that ...
someone is not a racist is good enough for me, suitably adapted to this case obviously.
So, what would you expect of say, Trent Lott who has been demonized as a racist by the left, to demonstrate that he is not a racist?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Not really the same
If I am not mistaken, the charges of racism are based on things that Lott himself said, not based on something that someone associated with him said, so I don't think it's a great comparison.
But honestly, I pretty much thought he was railroaded into resigning. And it wasn't just liberals, either. Even Bush
said his comments were offensive. I'm willing to believe it was just a pooly thought out turn of phrase, myself.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
OK, so I picked a bad example ...
way to completley dodge the entire point of the question. So, without example then, what evidence would you demand of someone to prove that they are not racist after having been so accused?
Whatever evidence would be suitable to satisfy liberals in this case will be good enough for me in Obama's case.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4OK
If someone were accused of racism based on no words or actions of their own, but on the words of someone with whom they were associated, then the following would be sufficient: "No I'm not." Bonus points for saying "I completely disagree with the words that were spoken."
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Whatever the case, whatever the subject
you are from the blame liberals first crowd, so I don't really think presenting reasonable, rational examples will ever ever change your mind.
Denials will never be enough for you, unless of course it is George Bush denying that he did not serve his full term in the national guard. There seems to be no proof that he completed his obligation. Yet he denied he did not serve out his military contract, and you were satisfied with Bush's denial.
I'm only half stupid
When was there ever any evidence to the contrary?
Nor does there seem to be any proof that he didn't, unless you want to count forged media documents.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4So a denial is enough
If it comes from the 'right' person. Ie: anyone that is not in your mind liberal.
Gotcha.
I'm only half stupid
No, not at all.
The "evidence" against Bush was shown to be forged and fabricated which seems a reasonable measure for being considered exonerated.
In contrast, Obama hasn't even denied having been a follower of this Pastor by virtue of having been a member of his church. He has not even denied having been associated with him. So, I'll ask you too, as a liberal what sort of "proof" would you demand of an accused racist to exonerate himself/herself? I would consider this sufficient in the Obama case as well.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Case closed.
Your denial is all yours.
I'm only half stupid
Well.....
I think he has regained his balance
. Recalling the amazing speech that Bobby Kennedy gave in Indiana after MLK was killed, he implores folks not to succumb to the politics of division. As a nation we can't afford to lose this moment.
I was just listening to JFK's speech writer, Ted Sorenson. He wrote the speech that John Kennedy gave to the nation....... on national TV, to educate and guide the country on the need for human dignity, as he was employing the National Guard to remove George Wallace from the school house steps so two black students could walk through the door of opportunity at Alabama University.
I'm only half stupid
CEI must be getting desperate
After the laughable We call it life
advertisement the Competitive Enterprise Institute tried out a year or two ago, I guess they realize that they can't attack the science of global warming with any credibility, so now they just harsh on Al Gore
. Thing is, they can't even get the facts right on this one either! Island of Doubt
has the scoop:
Oh, snap!
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Speaking of global warming ...
Here is an interesting read on the media bias in favor of GW alarmism:
Lorne Gunter: The media snowjob on global warming
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Arctic ice recovering nicely ... who woulda guessed?
Recent cold snap helping Arctic sea ice, scientists find
:
So that's good news. But if you read further you find this:
Hmm. The ice pack has been moving south. And people are surprised that it is melting? Pure genius, I can sure see why the greenies listen to these guys so much, that's simply stupifying!
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Climate change
So the arctic had a warmer summer than usual, and is now having a colder winter than usual. Sounds like climate change to me!
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
But if we listen to all those climate change scientists ...
the ice melting is indictative of Global Warming, whereas I am sure that they have an argument that the ice forming is also indicative of Global Warming as well. Scientifically speaking, these people can't see any physical phenomena that they can't explain as somehow supporting Global Warming.
It's like they have a pre-defined conclusion and are simply spinning all the data to support that conclusion.
In many ways the Global Warming alarmists seem to be relying on scientific reasoning analogous to that being demonstrated here:
Notice the similarity in how the "scientifically minded" knight guides the "ordinary people" through the "logic" of the situation? Just like the climate scientists leading the GW alarmists! :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Global warming consensus? What global warming consensus?
Scientists doubt climate change
:
Climate debate far from over, claim senators:
Climate dissent grows hotter as chill deepens:
IPCC's 'evil twin' launches climate change sceptic's creed:
So, the IPCC report is doing exactly what the liberals claim Bush did with the evidence leading up to the Iraq war: ignoring the inconvenient bits to support a pre-determined agenda. In that case they seem to call that lying.
Kind of makes you say, hmmm, eh?
In any event, the purported consensus continues to crumble. :(
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4It appears I have awakened the sleeping beast!
Might take a look at some of this stuff this weekend and post some replies. Definitely not tonight though.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Meh
Had I realized that this was mostly about yet another Minority Report from our good friend James Inhofe, I would have just said "meh" last night! I'll just pull a quote from one of the many
debunkings of this to be found:
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Meh, back.
People who can't back up their position try to claim they are "specialists" and therefore others just don't understand. It is a sign of a weak mind, actually. There is nothing special about being a climate scientist whatsoever. In the end it all comes back to basic scientific principles which all science and engineering students learn being applied to climate phenomena. They don't have any special skill at plotting data on a graph and interpretting the results. We all do it.
Reading the quote in your reply I see no scientific basis being presented to refute the arguments presented by these individuals, pretty much as expected, and therefore this is basically just and ad hominem argument
. That's a logical fallacy, BTW, so we know that this doesn't mean anything in terms of refuting the arguments made.
I also notice that you have completely ignored the whole NIPCC angle as well.
I don't expect you to be convinced of anything, your mind is made up and so you are resistant to additional perspectives and contradictory data. I think one of those articles made this point more generally, actually. I recognize this characteristic in all of the alarmists. Closed minds are part of their safe little cocoon mentality. It has become standard fare in that community.
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Pragmatism
Maybe one of these days you will accept the fact that I am not an "alarmist." I am a pragmatist. I have no problem believing that there is evidence to support both sides of this argument. But the fact remains that there is really good evidence on my side. Many of the so-called skeptics even say that it is fairly likely that man-made CO2 is responsible for the warming trend, they just quibble about how likely is likely, or how many inches the sea will rise, or how many 10ths of a degree the temp will go up.
And I see no compelling reason that we shouldn't be taking steps to reduce CO2 emissions drasticly. The economy will do just fine if we move away from fossil feuls to renewable sources. In fact, in the long run, it will probably do better.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Where did all the warming go?
I found this article to be an intersting read, perhaps you will was well:
Br-r-r! Where did global warming go?
So, could we be heading into a global cooling period now? Let's check the latest global temperature trends:
January 2008 - 4 sources say “globally cooler” in the past 12 months
Whoa! It seems the global temperature is plummeting precipitously, at least over the past year which the climate scientists predicted
to be the warmest on record having expected that it would surpass the current highpoint set in 1998. WTF? Maybe having "climate specialist" status doesn't mean as much as we have been lead to believe, eh?
Obviously one year of cooling does not create a lasting trend, but at the very least it throws some "cold water" on this ludicrous notion that these so called "climate specialists" have any "special insight" into what the weather is going to be like in the future. :)
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4Brrrr
So they predicted, in January 2007, that 2007 was 60% likely to be the warmest year on record, and, it was in fact the second warmest
. Oh my, they must be idiots, to be so wildly wrong.
Thanks for bringing up another example of the media and it's obvious alarmist bias.
(I trust that this was all dripping in sarcasm enough not to require emoticons.)
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
I guess it might have been, on average using the GISS data ...
But did you even look at the graphs of the recent trends?
I wasn't going to copy his charts, but what the heck they are being hosted by wordpress.com and they won't notice the little blip on their traffic.*
Note that the alarmists have been "worrying" about an increase of roughly 0.65C which accumulated over almost 30 years. Now we just dropped almost that same amount in just 1 year. Note also that two of the 4 major measures have us below baseline at this point and that this drop occurred while we continued to pump more and more CO2 into the atmosphere. Gee, is that possible? I thought more CO2 was going to make the temperature go up. :)
OMG, pandimonium! The earth will never survive! The sky is falling, the sky is falling, we're all going to freeze! This would be the montra if the alarmists had decided to pick cooling as a meme instead of warming. It just demonstrates how ludicrous all of the hysteria is.
Note, if this current trend continues we may end up glad that we have been burning all those fossil fuels after all! :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* January 2008 - 4 sources say “globally cooler” in the past 12 months
:
Here are the 4 major temperature metrics compared top to bottom, with the most recently released at the top:
UK’s Hadley Climate Research Unit Temperature anomaly (HadCRUT) Dr. Phil Jones:



Reference: above data is HadCRUT3 column 2 which can be found here
description of the HadCRUT3 data file columns is here
NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) Dr. James Hansen:


Reference: GISS dataset temperature index data
University of Alabama, Huntsville (UAH) Dr. John Christy:


Reference: UAH lower troposphere data
Remote Sensing Systems of Santa Rosa, CA (RSS):

(RSS Data Version 3.1)
Reference: RSS data here
The purpose of this summary is to make it easy for everyone to compare the last 4 postings I’ve made on this subject.
I realize that not all the graphs are of the same scale, so my next
task will be to run a combined graphic of all the data-sets on
identical amplitude and time scales to show the agreements or
differences such a graph would illustrate.
UPDATE: that comparison has been done here
Here is a quick comparison and average of ∆T for all metrics shown above:
- 0.595
For all four metrics the global average ∆T for January 2007 to January 2008 is: - 0.6405°C
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4And this proves
That we had a cold January. So what?
I know what you are trying to imply by this statement:
But let's go right to the source of your graphs and see what he has to say:
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Already covered that above ...
Let's keep up with the conversation. The interesting question will be what happens going forward, eh?
I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4the interesting question
I'm keeping up with the conversation just fine, thanks. I have already explained why this does not throw any cold water on the expertise of the climate scientists. (60% chance of being warmest is not at all a bad prediction, when the actual result was tied for second warmest.) Since you also admit that a single measurement has no real relevance on overall trends, then I guess you could say that the interesting question will be what happens going forward. Of course, it is not that interesting of a question, since the answer is agreed upon to about a 90% probability.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki