What's Right and Wrong with Libertarianism and Liberalism? Kevin Carson Discusses his Views

Hat Tip to Logan at Freedom Democrats for continuing to cover Kevin Carson's discussion of Libertarianism and Liberalism.

***This is actually a follow up to Logan's original posting on the matter from a few days earlier.

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It's about Kevin Carson's multi-part postings on the matter. Carson occupies a strange and authentically valid middle ground between liberals and libertarians. He's a mutualist which is a variety of anarchism....(The REAL one)...and libertarianism. See his Wiki Entry (hmm, wish I had one. :)). At his blog , he calls it "Free Market Anti-Capitalism." I actually know what he means by that but it's kinda hard to explain because he defines capitalism a little differently than I do and I don't totally agree with the title. But hey, pot-AY-to, pot-AH-to.

Overall, I greatly admire Carson. He's someone with whom I find enormous amounts of agreement on a broad scope but also someone who leaves me scratching my head at times in some of details. As an Austrian Economist said of him in a Mises Symposium on his book , he is like Dr.Jekyll and Mr. Hyde when fleshing out his detailed views on some matters.

But anyway, click thru to FD (support RD!) and have a read over the the series over the weekend...or maybe even tonight if you're bored. Remember, Carson's first article on the matter is actually in the second link I provided. Enjoy!

Be sure to share your thoughts.

**UPDATE

I just had to pull this quote from RFK Jr. that Carson cites:

RFK Jr. is a good example. He refers to markets in a positive way, but (unlike Obama and Goolsbee) sharply distinguishes the free market from corporate capitalism. In fact he demonizes the corporate economy in terms of free market principles:

You show me a polluter and I’ll show you a subsidy. I’ll show you a fat cat using political clout to escape the discipline of the free market and load his production costs onto the backs of the public.…. Free markets, when allowed to function, properly value raw materials and encourage producers to eliminate waste – pollution – by reducing, reusing, and recycling….The truth is, I don’t even think of myself as an environmentalist anymore. I consider myself a free-marketeer. Corporate capitalists don’t want free markets, they want dependable profits, and their surest route is to crush the competition by controlling the government. Let’s not forget that we taxpayers give away $65 billion every year in subsidies to big oil, and more than $35 billion a year in subsidies to western welfare cowboys. Those subsidies helped create the billionaires who financed the right-wing revolution on Capitol Hill and put George W. Bush in the White House.

Submitted by John on Fri, 2008-03-21 19:22

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I'm a big fan of Carson's work.

In particular, "Studies in Mutualist Political Economy," and "The Iron Fist Behind the Invisible Hand" .

I take some exception to your characterization.

Mutualism is a socialist form of anarchism, because while individualist, it is against the exploitation of labor, rejecting private property in favor of use-based possession . I wouldn't say he's "between" libertarianism or liberalism, as he reserves quite a bit of scorn for both "goo-goo" liberalism and "vulgar" libertarianism. I won't put words in his mouth though -- we should probably get him to post something here.

"Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence." - George Orwell

by: Autarkh - 2008-03-21 21:01 …………

I'm not quite sure what you took exception to

I didn't mean to nor did I mischaracterize him.

by: John - 2008-03-21 22:17 ………… parent •

I like the quote

Corporate capitalists don’t want free markets, they want dependable profits, and their surest route is to crush the competition by controlling the government. Let’s not forget that we taxpayers give away $65 billion every year in subsidies to big oil, and more than $35 billion a year in subsidies to western welfare cowboys.

I'm willing to just try eliminating corporate welfare. I think that is a good starting point for economic reforms. We don't necessarily need more spending for the less fortunate, just less spending for the more fortunate.

With respect to the meat of the quote, it seems that established businesses have found that buying laws that create barriers to entry is more profitable than investment and innovation. Look at the Google v. Microsoft saga. Most of it is being played out in Washington rather than in the marketplace. And because government lobbying is such an arms race (as Reich points out in Supercapitalism), one must lobby just to make sure a competitor doesn't get any advantage through rent seeking.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- ~~George W. Bush~~ Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

by: stinerman - 2008-03-21 23:09 …………

Did you say Google v. Microsoft??

hmmm, sounds familiar ...

And this one from a few weeks back...

See, Stinny? I'm not that evil. :)

by: John - 2008-03-21 23:35 ………… parent •

No one's ever called me "Stinny"

I never said you were evil, just condescending.

:-)

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- ~~George W. Bush~~ Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

by: stinerman - 2008-03-21 23:55 ………… parent •

not even that

misunderstanding.

BTW, don't you like Stinny??

by: John - 2008-03-22 00:01 ………… parent •

The life and times of stinerman

It hurts my eyes.

I've been called "Stiney" (STY-nee) more than a few times by my HS football coach. Perhaps that's how you were pronouncing "Stinny" (which I read as STI-nee [short "i" sound]). My freshman football coach coined "stinerman", which obviously stuck.

I've got a sort of obsessive-compulsive hierarchy of what I expect people to call me:

1) Friends call me "Stine". This is very much a hard rule. I've had people I've known for nearly a year not know my first name. In fact, one of my roommates in college didn't know my first name for the first 3 months we lived together.

2) Family calls me "Nathan" (for obvious reasons).

3) My fiancée calls me "Nate". She's the only one that calls me that.

Getting back to the eyes, I type my name "Nathan A. Stine" in all correspondence. That is most pleasing combination to look at, IMO. To be honest, as long as you aren't disparaging, you can call me whatever you want.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- ~~George W. Bush~~ Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

by: stinerman - 2008-03-22 00:57 ………… parent •

well, Stine

without knowing all that backdrop, I always assumed your screen name was pronounced with a short "i" sound, hence my twist on the name. Now I know it's supposed to be "steinerman" sounding. I'll make a note of it, Nate.

;)

by: John - 2008-03-22 01:09 ………… parent •