Why aren't More People Going to College?

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musing on college education

Charles Murray had some interesting comments in What's Wrong With Vocational School favicon? In general, I agree with his assertion that a minority of American high-school students are prepared for a four-year program focused on developing their "advanced analytic skills".

One way or another, they just don't have what it takes. Either they just aren't smart enough, or they don't have the motivation, or they don't have the preparation. This becomes a substantial problem when large swarths of our society have developed the perception that American kids should go to college straight out of high-school. In high school, I knew a number of kids who didn't really want to continue at school (and consequently wasted much of their tuition money and time), but had a sense that they needed to get that degree. Likewise, I met more  of this type of kid at college, even though it was a rather selective school. As a college instructor, I've seen a number of kids who pretty obviously didn't want to be in my class; consequently, I hated teaching them.

From these experiences, I'm strongly opposed to the idea that everyone should be enabled to attend a four-year college. I'd greatly prefer to expand our system of Community Colleges and Vocational Schools.

The big message here is that our Bachelor's degree system is pretty good as it is...we don't need to expand it. We may want to refine it a bit (I'd favor increased admission standards at public universities and increasing merit-based financial aid), but attempts to improve education in America should really focus on the lower levels.

 

P.S. REad the math panel report favicon

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"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was
made a man." --Frederick Douglas favicon

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excellent comments.

I have little to add.

Actually, I have nothing to add.

:)

………… parent

When I graduated from high school in the late 1960's,

being female definitely had its advantages; a girl could take a year off before deciding what to do with her life, and not have to worry about being drafted into the Army and shipped off to Indo-China to either kill or be killed.

Boys, on the other hand, had less of a choice back then; it was either go to college straight out of high school or be drafted, and get shipped off to Southeast Asia to kill or be killed.

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I'm with John

The only thing I'd add is that our secondary schools should, for the lack of a better term, weed out the people who don't want to learn and the people who aren't planning on a 4-year degree. In my high school, college prep curricula didn't start in earnest until my junior year. Partly due to what I would assume was poor funding, partly due to the fact that we were a rural/industrial small town, and partly due to the idea that we can't start segregating kids until we're sure they aren't college material.

It's not politically or socially acceptable to say this, but not everyone has the "book learnin'" skills needed to go to college and succeed. Some people are going to be losers in every sense of the word and some people can't do much better than a factory job. We really ought to increase our funding of 2-year colleges and trade schools.

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I'm listening to... favicon
I'm still certain that what motivates me
Is more rewarding than any piece of paper could be -- Dennis Lyxzén

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I'm glad you spelled that out. Agreed.

I thought it would seem harsh to say that but it is the right thing to do.

Personally, I don't think it's a matter of having to weed out. I think it's simply a matter of removing the compulsion and giving people with different plans in life better and more suitable choices.

Honestly, ask yourself this question...not just stinerman but anyone:

Why should ambitious students with college and careers in high power careers in mind and less ambitious students with no idea on careers or no serious plans be forced to go to the same high school...simply because they live in the same town?

Furthermore, why do we assume that the system we have in place...never mind the amount of funding...is the best way to handle this?

Granted, I too used to think it was "the only fair way" but I've come to realize that it simply is not. Besides, what's so fair about it?

On the one hand, ambitious students, especially in urban public schools, are robbed of a better education and/or their parents are forced to pay an arm and a leg for private school while funding public schools.

On the other hand, less ambitious students are forced into a curriculum that doesn't prepare them for anything useful while wasting valuable years drudging around in a system that simply doesn't suite them.

………… parent

Parse error

Why should ambitious students with college and careers in high power careers in mind and less ambitious students with no idea on careers or no serious plans

I think I know what you're saying, but i reread that phrase several times. :-)

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I'm listening to... favicon
I'm still certain that what motivates me
Is more rewarding than any piece of paper could be -- Dennis Lyxzén

………… parent

I agree...

On the one hand, ambitious students, especially in urban public schools, are robbed of a better education and/or their parents are forced to pay an arm and a leg for private school...

Not if the kid is 6'5" with good outside touch, then its a scholarship and a spot on the b-ball team.

Some kids are just better off at vocational schools, some people have great technical skills and aren't good at "high skill" jobs.

In a related topic: I hate the term "unskilled"

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In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

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Now couple that thought with

this favicon.

The high school graduation rate is a barometer of the health of American society and the skill level of its future workforce. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, each new cohort of Americans was more likely to graduate from high school than the preceding one. This upward trend in secondary education increased worker productivity and fueled American economic growth .[1]

In the past 25 years, growing wage differentials between high school graduates and dropouts increased the economic incentives for high school graduation. The real wages of high school dropouts have declined since the early 1970s while those of more skilled workers have risen sharply.

I can't help but get the sneaking suspicion that they are missing the point in way by focusing on the "graduation rate" rather than the realties that lie beneath.

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Unions, School Choice and Education

A pertinent post by Megan McArdle favicon.

I do not object to the teacher's unions because they have a union. I object to the teacher's unions because teachers are among the competing interests that run low-income school districts for the benefit of the various interest groups, rather than the children....

I do not say that they are malicious, though certainly in many cases the union clearly recognizes that they are benefiting their members at the expense of the children. But more of it is that the entrenched institutional arrangements, many of them enshrined in union contracts, are extraordinarily impervious to change. When an entire system has grown up around union arrangements, tweaking any substantial part of it threatens to throw the whole system into disarray.

Unions also give teachers power to resist changes that make their jobs less fun. I think the teachers genuinely believe that these changes are bad; but I also think that they strenuously resist learning anything to the contrary. There is really good evidence for the benefits of direct instruction in teaching disadvantaged children. But direct instruction moves the teacher into being more of a technician and less of a creative professional.

But it's more than that. In New York, the principal's union resisted an attempt to attract the system's top principals to failing schools by giving them a substantial bonus payment in the tens of thousands of dollars. The union vetoed this because the extra pay wouldn't accrue pension. Huh? It was entirely voluntary, the system couldn't afford pension payments, and the principals would have gotten an extra $25 grand or so. But no dice. Any change threatens the union, because it puts the delicate balance of power between all the competing interest groups in play.

Liberals rejoinder that it isn't the unions--it's the funding/poor kids/infrastructure/class size/textbooks. This sort of thing is hard to disprove conclusively, of course. But here's a data point: New Orleans smashes it's teachers union; test scores rise dramatically, even though it's still ministering to poor kids testing substantially below grade level.

That's quite a bit to chew on and I agree with her.

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