Weekend Open Thread

Across the pond, the Tories flipped a seat in a by-election (special election for us yanks). This does not bode well for the increasingly unpopular PM Gordon Brown and his Labour Party.

The Texas polygamist case has taken on a twist. An appeals court ruled that Texas authorities had no grounds by which to take the over 400 children from their parents. The court ruled that the state can only take children away from their parents if the children are in immediate danger, which the state did not prove.

On this day:

Birthdays: Comedian, fellow Ohioan, and libertarian activist Drew Carey (1958) and General Ambrose Burnside (1824) for whom sideburns are named.

Timothy McVeigh bombs the federal building in Oklahoma City because of government actions at Waco and Ruby Ridge .

Ed. note: Changed title to weekend thread. As far as I'm concerned, Friday is the weekend. :-)

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I am hearing

a new tone overall about the harsh problems we face, for the first time in decades.

In some circles (not the GoRight circles) there is bipartisan discourse, that this country has some serious problems re energy, budget priorities and the reality that the higher energy prices will hit the consumer like a ton of bricks. Concensus says the likelihood of a recession is now great.

I am excited that some folks (not the GoRight folks) are talking seriously about working together to solve problems and recognizing that the way this comes about is with the first three words of the constitution... We the people.

That means everyone has to have a seat at the table. The one key factor we need as per, David Walker, former US comptroller, and some other very serious people , is leadership. (Incidentally Walker gives a big phat razberry to Grover Norquist and his attempt to blackmail politicians by signing pledges to not raise taxes.)

I am a sap, I know, but it is fantastic to hear folks finally talking about how this country is a great country, instead of slandering or blaming, one group or the other. The secret weapon written into our constitution is consenses through compromise.

(For GoRight that means you can own a handgun and a rifle, just not a machine gun.)

It is the economy, stupid.

…………

Definitions vary. I think we're already in a recession.

The one I go by is 2 consecutive quarters of flat or negative growth. Things have gone down hill from at least last summer.

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True

yet technically speaking we aren't in a recession, defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. Whatever that means.

With the skyrocketing cost of fuel, the word recession is slipping off the lips of very 'serious' people. You can't solve a problem unless you admit you have one. So that's a start.

It is the economy, stupid.

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"recession" doesn't matter

it's a continuum. Things are worse than they have been recently, but not as bad as they have been (in the 70's, perhaps). We have the GDP numbers and the unemployment numbers. The label is irrelevant.

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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While that may be true

a lot of folks that have been unwilling to say the word, are now saying in light of sqeeze that high gas prices will put on those living on the edge. Consumer spending, one of the key drivers of the economy is bound to contract.

It is the economy, stupid.

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why should they say it?

it's just a historical label used to partition the historical timeline and make it easier to talk about particular periods of economic history.

if we use it to talk about current events we just throw away information and nuance.

discussing whether we are in a recession is a distraction from the real issues.

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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Because

when folks are seeing inflation, stagnent wages, etc. and the so called experts, the elite intelligensia and the leaders in economics and such affairs don't acknowledge reality, it hurts their credibility. That's why.

Why even listen to folks that aren't interested in telling the truth.

It is the economy, stupid.

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Yeah, I agree....

...its been quite a change in the last few years. Formerly my conservative friends would spend their time and energy scoffing at my crazy liberal ideas like ending our dependency on oil. Now - especially in the last six months - the conversation is no longer whether we should but how we should go about doing it. We still disagree on particulars but we all seem to agree on the direction we as a country should be moving.

As it turns out, after eight years of this administration I think Bush really is a uniter. Just not in the way he thought he would be!

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You know you are in trouble

when some of the big wig Wall Street investors are wondering what the hell Bush is doing.

Why isn't Bush bragging about what he has accomplished? So yeah in many ways Team Bush and his ideologues have made things so bad, that it has united the country for change. It goes to show that nothing is ever all bad or all good.

Partisan free market fundamentalism does not work.

It has brought us the housing bubble, a banking crises, an oil crises, a war, crappy savings rates, a weaker dollar and a Justice Department filled with incompetent spiteful partisans.

Hank Paulson, specifically seems to be delusional, insisting that 'we' have a stronger dollar policy as the dollars worth consistently plummets. Right Hank, because black is really white..... not!

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

Welcome aboard!

I am a sap, I know, but it is fantastic to hear folks finally talking about how this country is a great country, instead of slandering or blaming, one group or the other.

Republicans and conservatives have been talking about how great this country is all along.  That's why we complain when the left runs it down.

So the conservative message about the greatness of this country is finally sinking in on your side of the aisle?  That's great! 

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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Yes we know GR.....

But for some of us sanctioning torture, as one example, just isn't part of what makes America great. So, I and others are excited about the thought of restoring dignity and integrity to the US, particularly abroad.

And some conservatives and Republicans have been none to thrilled with the tarnishment of some of the concepts held in our constitution, little things like checks and balances on executive power. See Bob Barr, John Dean, Ron Paul, Gen. Abizaid, and others.

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

Lies.

There has been no torture.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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White is black

Up is down.

There is no recession.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

why does the GOP hate America?

tip to: Ad Wars: Graves' "San Francisco" Ad

 

Isn't San Fran part of America? Why do Republicans constantly vilify a great American city? Graves has no business making laws that govern San Fran.

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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Blow it out your other end

neither you nor the chickenhawk phony patriots you pay homage to have a monopoly on loving this country.

qui tacet consentire

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Is the US stabalizing or occupying Iraq?

Many on the right continue to claim that US Armed Forces are "helping" Iraq by stabalizing it. Apparently that opinion is not shared by Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani who it has been revealed :

"Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric has been quietly issuing religious edicts declaring that armed resistance against U.S.-led foreign troops is permissible...A senior aide to the prime minister, al-Maliki, said he was not aware of the fatwas, but added that the "rejection of the occupation is a legal and religious principle" and that top Shiite clerics were free to make their own decisions."

Previously the bush43 Administration has held al-Sistani up as a guiding light OK'ing American activities in Iraq. Du'oh!!!!! The Homer Simpson of presidential administrations seems to have struck again!

…………

troublesome news...

but it's just rumors right now.

things have been looking up ...

 

casualty trends

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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The United States has destablized Iraq and

has been occupying t hat country. During the first Gulf War, under G. H. W. Bush Sr.'s watch, G. H. W. Bush Sr., Colin Powell and Gen. Schwarzkopf rightly warned against going deeper into Iraq and into Baghdad, because of the destablizing affect(s) that it would have on Iraq. All t hree of them were proven right: destablization of Iraq has definitely occurrred.

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Fraud. How US taxpayers are getting shafted.

Here's another link to Digby who is quoting from Pentagon auditors :

"a cash payment of $320.8 million in Iraqi money was authorized on the basis of a single signature and the words “Iraqi Salary Payment” on an invoice. In another, $11.1 million of taxpayer money was paid to IAP, an American contractor, on the basis of a voucher with no indication of what was delivered..

The mysterious payments, whose amounts had not been publicly disclosed, included $68.2 million to the United Kingdom, $45.3 million to Poland and $21.3 million to South Korea. Despite repeated requests, Pentagon auditors said they were unable to determine why the payments were made....

In one instance, a United States Treasury check for $5,674,075.00 was written to pay a company called Al Kasid Specialized Vehicles Trading Company in Baghdad for items that a voucher does not even describe.

In another case, $6,268,320.07 went to the contractor Combat Support Associates with even less explanation. And a scrawl on another piece of paper says only that $8 million had been paid out as “Funds for the Benefit of the Iraqi People.”

I myself don't think that the bush43 Administration invaded Iraq in order to pillage the US Treasury. I do feel that once it happened, many in a position to act more ethically thought it was a good opportunity to rape , pillage and plunder(see above Digby link).

I also am not offended by right wing corporations working for American interests. I am very unhappy when I see that right wing corporations working against the American interests that are paying them handsomely.

…………

It's enough money

to fund medicare and social security, and build some bridges that don't collapse along the way.

It is the economy, stupid.

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It's OK, just say it.... LOL

:)

check this out

Hilarious.

A congressional hearing (?) about rising oil prices and permission to drill for more oil to expand supply.

…………

How about using something other than a combustion engine?

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Sure,

Bring it on...

But in the meantime....

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I know. I know. I'm on that soap box too much.

I wish I had a Tesla. I don't. I have a Toyota. OK, we have 2 Toyota's, a sedan and a PU.

Still would like to have a tesla. (and a porsche or a ferrari, but I'll just have to wait till my mid life crisis for that.)

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Tesla, etc.

The Tesla does look sweet, doesn't it?

You're from California, right? Have you seen the Aptera ? If I lived out there I'd love to try one of those out!

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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That looks fun.

No, I hadn't seen that.

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What the hell is that?

What a wierd-looking car. Never seen it before.

I am, however, the proud owner of a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid, which I love, has given me no problems whatsoever, and, with rare exceptions, find myself only needing to gas up once or twice a month.

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A teardrop shape

is fantastic in terms of aerodynamics, hence the look of the Aptera. Wind resistance causes the majority of the inefficiencies for cars and trucks.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Tesla is one of my all time favorite people in

human history.

Calling him a visionary is a gross understatement. The car was wonderfully named in his honor....more things should be.

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Get one of the new Honda fuel cell cars ...

if you happen to be in one of the "special" parts of California.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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OMG, that's hilarious!

The only word she can come up with is "socializing" it! Well she said she was a liberal.

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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And people wonder where stereotypes come from.

I mean really. Let's explore ways to help with energy costs BY ALL MEANS...but that kind of nonsense is neither helpful or sensible.

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It should in fact be socialized/nationalized

Energy is too important to be left to profit driven companies. Enron in California is a direct example of what happens when you do that.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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By that rationale,

we should just nationalize everything.

Besides, nationalizing energy isn't going to make the underlying problems of higher prices go away...to say the very, very least.

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Not everything

just everything that's critical to the nation's infrastructure- energy, communication, transportations, utilities, etc.

As I've said before, capitalism does one thing very well- the production and distribution of luxuries. That's what it should be allowed to do and the only thing it should be allowed to do because quite frankly it has been a disaster at everything else.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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OK

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Happy B-Day, Drew...

and an activist he is.

He maintains the Drew Carey Project at reason.tv

…………

Indeed, but

Most important to me is that he's from Ohio. :-)

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

A devout Browns fan.

But I like him anyway. (Eagles!!!)

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Creepy

Hillary invokes RFK' s assination as one of the reasons she is still in the race.

It is the economy, stupid.

…………

Yea, and it sounds like Barack "everything's about me" Obama ...

had a cow, or at least his campaign did.

I think all the attention is going to his head. he seems to be having lots of "me" type moments lately like he thinks the world and everything in it revolves around him.

If he gets elected is dumbo ears going to be this sensitive all the time?

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

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You poor thing

Hope your condition improves soon.

It is the economy, stupid.

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C'mon GR...give us a good version of John McCain

having an aneurysm after hearing about Obama saying he thought McCain was a great man but wrong not to talk to enemies. It looked like he was gonna go off like a cartoon volcano.

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Is Obama a Muslim?

Ezra Klein asks and answers the question by pointing to a website that has the answer .

Personally, I didn't know anyone was really wondering anymore. Furthermore, I'd like to think that anyone who REALLY, REALLY wants to know probably wouldn't vote for him no matter what is religion is anyway.

Oh brother....the things some people fret about in this country.

…………

yea but apparently David Horowitz is e-mailing everybody

linking to some mulim site from 2007 that claims Barack is an apostate muslim.

But Horowitz is a wack job anyhow. Who is going to believe him besides..........well, I hope GoRight you don't.

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kindness: NYT op-ed : President Apostate?

is this what you are talking about? President Apostate? by EDWARD N. LUTTWAK

 

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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Edward Nutt-wack, maybe

Is this guy for real? He goes on about how no Muslim countries have actual laws about this or that, but that according to the Koran this or that is the Law. That would be like saying that, although the United States doesn't have any actual laws against it, according to the Bible, sleeping with another man's wife is punishable by death. It's taking the fundamentalist view and applying it to an entire society. It's BS.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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another apostate op-ed; By Shireen K. Burki

Barack Obama – Muslim apostate ?

bush provokes reasonable people. This would draw out the fanatics.
I'd fight that war.

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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apostate junk has been around for awhile

Doing a web search, i've seen stuff from 2006 (the above are May 19 and 12), but this seems to be the oldest of the "modern" bunch (Jan 8).

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/117754

 

Therefore the threat of being charged with apostasy is enough to open Obama up to coercion.

...because otherwise no-one would want to kill the President of the U.S....

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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I just saw the thread over at Digby's

this afternoon. She talked about Horowitz putting links in his magazine FrontPage.

The sad thing is that there are Americans that really believe he's a Muslim. You all saw the interviews after the West Virginia primary. Lots of them folk said they didn't want to vote for a Muslim.

Now that is scary. Course you got all types. An old room-mate of mine believed the Apollo moon landings were all faked. He really believed that. That's not scary, that's crazy.

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Believing Obama is a Muslim is like believing that

NYC is the capital of NYS. It's an easily verifiable fact as whether it's true or not.

There's simply no excuse. None.

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Not exactly

A person's belief system isn't something that is verifiable because it goes to their state of mind. I have often declared my agnosticism and atheism, but how do you really know that's what I believe? Maybe I'm a closet Jainist.

That being said, there is no credible reason to believe Obama is a Muslim, just as there is no credible reason to believe I'm a Jainist.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

two messages on apostacy

from the 2007 story (linked above):

Muslim leaders worldwide will not be saying, "He was raised a Muslim.
Isn't that terrible?" Rather, I suspect that both Obama's campaign and
Muslim leaders worldwide will say, "He was raised a Muslim. Isn't that
wonderful? At last, someone who can see our point of view."

 This is the opposite message from what i linked to (saying muslims would reject him). The evolution of this message is interesting--Lutteak's piece seems to represent the most refined version (most reasonable, least offensive). Given the timing of publication, I doubt that these are independent ideas.

They are pretty weak as a basis for deciding how to vote, but they reinforce the aggressive nationalist message that middle-eastern muslims are natural born killers

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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survey on muslim/west politics

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0517/p12s01-wogi.html

http://www.gallup.com/press/104209/Who-Speaks-Islam-What-Billion-Muslims-Really-Think.aspx 

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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Personally I could care less if he is or he isn't ...

but I'm not above fanning the flames a bit! :)

Don't forget, in addition to all of the compelling information presented here that he made that telling Freudian slip about visiting all 57 "states" .

Frankly, it's all beginning to look pretty sinister to me!

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

………… parent

We do have 57 states

Besides the regular 50, there's Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin islands, Canada, Mexico, Iraq and Israel.

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

It's a 'nice' way of folks

mentioning that he is black.

It is the economy, stupid.

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missL: muslim & black

reasonable suspicion. discussed at DKos .

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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There aren't any white muslims?

(seriously)

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

………… parent

Of course there are

and they are all terrorist sympathizers, like the magority of democrats, looking forward to a hot chicken & rice dinner at Gitmo.

It is the economy, stupid.

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I thought they served pork at Gitmo ...

Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree

………… parent

You would know more than I

since you brag so much about how well we treat detainees.

So I'll just take your word for it.

It is the economy, stupid.

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the hard core

from comments at reason:

The Wine Commonsewer | May 23, 2008, 12:40am | #

My
father once said that the core of every political party is composed of
crazed, true believing nutcases and that the reason the LP looks bad is
because there isn't anyone but the core.

 

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

…………

mccain dumps Hagee (and parsley)

finally .

J-Street claims responsibility . News sources are mum on how it happened. 

 

did hagee's comments make sense

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

…………

LP convention this weekend

In fact, the Libertarian Party convention has already started. Reason is doing a bit of covering and CSPAN will have cameras there as well. They'll be broadcasting at 9pm EDT on Saturday as well as almost all day Sunday for the balloting.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

…………

Yeah, I caught some of that on CSPAN

last night as I drifted to sleep. CPAN is like two channels up from the History Channel...so when I cam across AXE MEN on History, I shrugged, rolled my eyes and started flipping through the channels and I flew right past it as I noticed the LP symbol on the podium. I went "WHA...?" and quickly went back and watched some guy bashing both parties (typical LP stuff).

he said something like:

At the heart of every American beats the heart of a libertarian and the libertarian spirit.

I got a good chuckle as I felt asleep at least.

I gotta hand it to CSPAN though....they give air time to everyone...even the incredibly insignificant and almost unknown LP...technically the 3rd largest party in the US. Pathetic, huh?

If it wasn't for CSPAN, your average TV viewer would never know about these little things....not that they would really know anyway since nobody watches CSPAN. ;)

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Good column on the fiscal

Good column on the fiscal irresponsibility of all three prez candidates. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/23/AR200805...

…………

My new favorite link

here

A useful response in many instances.

It is the economy, stupid.

…………

Funny,

This is a first:

I'm watching a presidential candidate debating on TV with whom I have exchanged comments with a blog...George Phillies on CSPAN (Libertarian Party Presidential Debate)

Interesting experience watching these guys talk. A refreshing perspective I must say. :)

…………

I know the feeling

I voted for Logan Martinez , an acquaintance of mine who ran for State Representative.

Oddly enough, he was the one who turned me off to the Green Party, but his views on the issues were good.

I didn't have a chance to see much of the LP debate, but I plan to listen to it later.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

I caught bits and pieces

pretty good fun. Makes me wanna join the LP...almost. ;) I wish it could be more than that.

………… parent

What's your walk score?

I checked mine and got an 80. Not bad!

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

…………

Mine was a 12

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

80

not exactly surprising seeing as we chose this locale precisely so we could walk to the grocery store, a number of malls, etc.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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91!

go pittsbugh!

i fill up my gas tank every other month.

however, my next-door neighbor's personal training service is counted as "school" and "fitness". 

this scoring system is very primitive. they need to incorporate more information than what they get from google maps. 

"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas

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Yeah

When I did mine, they had the dump (sorry, "transfer station") listed as the nearest library. What's up with that?

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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14!

Which I guess makes me much prouder of the fact that I only fill my gas tank about once a month or less. Hurrah for bicycles!

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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...

55 and what not

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,