Clinton plans to suspend her campaign and endorse Obama Saturday.
Red Wings win the Stanley Cup by defeating the Penguins 3-2. NBA finals begin tonight.
Tough times for airlines, as Continental also announces layoffs and plane groundings in the wake of continuing high fuel prices. Open thread -- what's happening?
__________________________
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Obama is doing the really annoying pre-emptive garbage
Obama expects GOP attack on patriotism and integrity
- eh, screw off Obama. What a stupid and utterly predictable tactic.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Stupid because........
You think the hard right won't portray him as un-American in some fashion or other?
What's annoying is the predictability of the right's claim that every democrat that runs for office is a potential communist threat to America, that holds terrifyingly similar views to Karl Marx, if they breathe a word about standing up for hard working people.
What's annoying is the hard rights claim that if you are not pro-torture then you obviously don't 'love American enough'.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
he hasn't really been attacked that way yet
And I hope that he will be of course, but McCain had not done it and has been fairly positive so this amounts to an immediate negative attack from Obama.
What it is is actually more of the same from the Dems. Some candidate of change heh employing the usual Dem tactics of spreading lies.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I am not following
your last point. What lies are the dems spreading now? That Republicans will or won't attack Obama?
And of course the RNC will smear Obama. You mean you haven't gotten any of the viral non-stop e-mails? Please.
McCain has already stated that Obama wants to wave the white flag of surrender. We know that's code for he is an unpatriotic terrorist loving sand monkey, so take heart!
He hasn't been attacked yet?
Surely you jest. Wasn't it you that posted the picture of him without a flag pin not holding his hand over his heart and claiming that he was "unAmerican" ?
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
it's not the point that RNC might smear Obama later on
just like DNC and Obama will smear McCain - those are inevitable, but this so called "candidate of change" has gone negative first trying to preempt any legitimate challenge to his extremely questionable associations and history in general.
He is pathetic and I hope McCain destroys him in the GE. This statement by Obama today immediately destroyed any kind of good will I felt towards him from yesterday.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
You consider it going negative.....
looking ahead to what the opposition campaign will be like and stating it publically, to be stupid politically, when you admit yourself that smears are what you foresee. That is a sad statement on your part. What true patriot wouldn't take offense at having their patriotism insulted.
I see nothing wrong with standing up to defend your honor, pre-emptively. It's a smart move. Hopefully other spineless democrats will take note.
Although I see why it could be upsetting to those like yourself. :)
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
but his patriotism hasn't been insulted
He is stating that it will happen to try to lessen the impact because most of what will be said about him is true. He is not a "true patriot" anyways - only now he is becoming all patriotic because he needs to appeal to middle America.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Of course his patriotism
has been insulted.
What the hell do you think 'Flagpingate' was all about. Give me a break.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
legitimate questions
Is that why he is wearing a pin now? Because it wasn't legitimate?
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
It's not worth the pettiness
of the side show that distracts from more important debates.
Wearing a flag pin made in China is not a sign of being either patriotic or unpatriotic to most people, but it was turned into a flaming wedge issue intentionally.
I would think being able to distinguish between Persian and Arab, and Sunni and Shiite is much more critical real world issue. Hopefully John McCain has learned the difference by now. He had a little trouble at first.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
I noticed you've been defending McCain's teeth
good for you!
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
It's as stupid
as Republicans making a big deal out of Kerry's tan.
It's stupid from either side.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
Oh, you mean like this?
It's probably important to know what languages people speak too, eh?
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Gotcha
Your favorite game.
I suppose the right is caching these 'gaffes', and filing them away, to pre-empt and diffuse any questions about McCain's age.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
Sorry, which part of that is legitimate?
The flag pin thing? Really?
__________________________Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
apparently it sounded legitimate enough to him
as he decided to wear it.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Maybe, although I'd ask
why people cared in the first place.
__________________________Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Impressive
In just a few words you claim that his patriotism has not been insulted, and also insult his patriotism.
__________________________We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
I am not his opponent nor RNC
So I am free to attack him. :)
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Can I help? Please?
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
feel free to jump in at any point :) n/t
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I feel so liberated with McCain as the Republican nominee!
It's like I'm a maverick or something. A free agent. Whoo hoo!
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
me too
I am all maverick.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
OK, I'll be Bret Maverick ...
and you can be his brother Bart
.
:)
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
alright man
I'll take the good looking part.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
He's not a "true patriot?"
Perhaps you'd like to define a true patriot for us.
Would it be someone who gets multiple draft deferments and says he had more important things to do than fight in Vietnam?
Or would it be someone who stays drunk and stoned so often he is unable to fulfill his National Guard commitment to defend Alabama from the Vietcong?
__________________________qui tacet consentire
OK
True Patriot = Not ( Obama )
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Good for you!
At least you are now acknowledging that Michael Moore, Nancy Pelosi, and Cindy Sheehan, among others, are true patriots!
__________________________We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
I am in awe
at the depth and breadth of your counter-argument.
__________________________qui tacet consentire
McCain would do...
Obama would not. Why are you bringing Bush and Cheney into this?
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
That's a non-response
Apparently you have nothing of substance.
You voted for Bush and Cheney -- so either you deemed their Vietnam era actions patriotic or irrelevant. In either case you have a double standard -- you overlook a shameful disregard of patriotic duty by Bush and Cheney at the same time you castigate Obama for not wearing a pin.
__________________________qui tacet consentire
I don't know ...
what do you consider accusing people of things they haven't done, positive? I mean these are false accusations.
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
+4
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
+4
Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Heh
Would you rather have Obama wait two years to respond to these kinds of attacks, like Kerry did? If, as you say, these attacks are "inevitable," then I don't understand your problem with defusing them before the fact. No need to discard good politics, even if you are the "candidate of change."
__________________________We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
it's more of politics as usual
I predict a lot of fearmongering about GOP and McCain is coming too as this candidate of change proceeds to scare people into voting for him.
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I am not even sure I know
what politics means anymore.
Just speaking generally:
He is a brilliant politician. Is that a compliment or a slam?
He is a respected politician seems like more of a compliment.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
zimbabwe has some serious issues
U.S. Embassy says U.S., British diplomats attacked in Zimbabwe
:
nice...
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I am sure that Bush
will send Mugabe a sternly worded letter.
That'll teach them!
__________________________qui tacet consentire
Congradulations Red Wings fans. Sorry Philly fans.
Now let's bring on the Lakers - Celtics match up.
Lakers have the betting moneys edge. So why is it that I want the Celtics to win? I'm not a Celtics fan. The again, I'm not a Lakers fan either.
Congradulations Red Wings
Don't you mean "Congradulations Red Wings fans. Sorry [Pitt] fans."
You really, truly, don't want the Celtics to win, because of Sam Cassell.
__________________________In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
I stand properly corrected.
Blew that one, didn't I?
Hillary supporters for McCain
IN case it didn't make sense to some why the Pat Buchanon's the GoRights of the world and the Right in general had a new respect for Hillary.
It wasn't totally out of respect for Hillary, though they grudgingly respected her indefatiguable grit. It has been more out of self interest. The McCainocrats are actively seeking out the discontented Hillary's supporters as a potential voting bloc. And Rush asked you to support Hillary to cover up the rush of Republicans away from the GOP.
A site for GoRight's Amusement
Some say politics is the art of coalescing diverse groups around something they hate.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
ROFL. Oh man, that is a great site!
I particularly liked this post:
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Just remember
I was thinking of you.
This is the site where the purported roll out was to happen this Monday at 9AM that showed some tape of Michelle Obama that was to be the be all and end all of your partisan dreams. Fox News mentioned it several times but no such tape every showed up. (I think Larry is a hack making things up to draw traffic to his site)(Also noteworthy that Powerline has been drooling with anticipation over this alledged tapes existence. Do Powerline and Larry Johnson work in conjunction.)
Larry Johnson is a Republican that worked for the CIA for a short time, and came out against Bush and for Hillary. I think the CIA is pretty pissed at Cheney for trashing their 'work', and the affair du Plame.
I actually think he is still using his old CIA tactics to influence the election to swing it for Republicans. Like I said, this is a part of the Rush/Republican strategy this year. With Bush at 25%, what choice did they have, but pretend to be Hillary supporters, to first infiltrate and disrupt the convention, divide the democratic party and now to feign outrage and get Hillary democrats to support McCain.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
Thanks, I appreciate that ...
you have again been transformed from evil ogre(ss) to beautiful princess status in my eyes! :)
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Ah the days of yore
when I was a beautiful princess...... until all this cynicism got in my eyes.
Now if only I could kiss the frog and turn him into my knight in shining armor,
__________________________that does not believe all citizens have the right to carry AKA 47's.
It is the economy, stupid.
Be careful now ...
you might accidentily tarnish your tiara
! :)
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Some say politics is the art
Thats sounds like a Hitler quote, bringing up his two favorite things in one sentence, "art" and "hate"
__________________________In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Inspired by George Will
who was inspired by John Adams.
Although I hear Hitler was inspired by the way the US captured land from the Indians and put them in government encampments.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
Remember the report Sen Pat Roberts (R-KS) was supposed
to release (years ago) that detailed the Phase II report on Pre-War intelligence leading up to the Iraq war? Well, it's finally out. Guess what? John Cole has a Cliff Notes version:
"—Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.
—Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.
—Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.
—Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq’s chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community’s uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing."
And Republicans are currently saying that those Americans who are suggesting we never should have attacked and occupied Iraq are impuning the Armed Forces that are over there now. Let's see, based on this, the bush43 Administation KNOWINGLY LIED THROUGH THEIR TEETH about the whole thing. What does that mean about the Armed Forces folks who have already died (4100 and counting) or for that matter those that will sadly follow their fate?
Is it too late to impeach bush43?
PS -- I guess we can all see now why Senator Roberts wouldn't release this report.
who here is impressed with Kos attacking McCain's teeth
and how yellow they are. Staying classy!
__________________________"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Yea, can't say I am suprised ...
but in all fairness they have to have something to combat the Dumbo Ears:
__________________________Republican Maverick at Large
-4:Strongly Disagree; 0:Meh; +4:Strongly Agree
Top post on the rec list is "Please take down the 'teeth' post"
so the community as a whole doesn't like kos commenting on McCain's teeth.
__________________________Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Glad to see it went over badly.
Low-class and stupid, all in one package. Whatever friction I've had with a lot of the community there lately, they definitely took the right tack in rejecting it pretty resoundingly.
I loved this comment
in particularly. :)
__________________________Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Tough day.
John Cole had a post titled Comparing Speeches
over at Balloon Juice this morning. It compares Clinton's Speech to Obama's and ends saying that Democrats need to come together to beat John McCain.
Well, Armondo (BTD) wrote a post about it titled Perspectives on Sexism
over at TalkLeft. He essentially says that John Cole is a blind sexist Hillary Hater.
I made the mistake of piping in that I thought BTD left out the core argument John Cole was making (about Democrats coming together) and pasted a couple of paragraphs showing what he had left out. Alas, I've been formally threatend with being banned over at TalkLeft because of it from BTD. I'd be more upset if TalkLeft was actually a decent site. Right now it's populated by whiners who go out of their way to see evil in everything but their chosen saviour Hillary. I guess the thing that pissed me off so much was Armondo being such a big baby. To think that I used to actually like what he wrote. Jesus.
Heh, you got like 10 quick responses
Armando has always been sensitive IMHO. Just who he is.
Not much fun when you find yourself disagreeing with something he wrote.
He's been obsessed with sexism, real and imagined, against Hillary. Maybe he thinks she needs a champion to protect her from the hordes... what a sexist! =P
__________________________Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I should know better. It's not like just found the internet
yesterday.
And I'll agree there was sexism in the race for the nomination. I just don't think the bulk of it came from the Obama camp. I think it's just out in the media.
I'm staying away from TL for a while. I really don't want to be a trouble maker, but right now I'm already ear tagged like a bad bear.
He likes to consider himself the intellectual elite
maverick.
Very intellectually edgy. NOT! I think the word is hypocrite.
If only he were as interesting as say, William Buckley, who was at least kind.
I hate the threats of banishment for disagreement. Pathetic and sickening.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.
One thing that is kind of funny.
My original post on that thread was the 7th post the thread got. Somehow it's now miraculously at the bottom of the thread.
I wasn't trying to show they guy up on his own blog but that's how he took it.
In defense of Armando,
he's not calling Cole a "blind sexist Hillary Hater". He's arguing that there's an implicit - and unconscious - acceptance of certain types of sexism as normal behavior. As evidence of this he argues that Cole considers terms like "elite" a "breach of community norms", but while he recognizes sexist slurs against Clinton as slurs, he offers the caveat that they were not part of a pattern of behavior, and they didn't constitute the same kind of breach. Armando's arguing that our culture - not Cole himself - has a higher threshold for accepting sexism as part of typical behavior. Cole's inability to recognize this is simply a small example of a cultural blind spot towards sexism, but not actively sexist.
Agree or disagree, but that's his actual stance, not that Cole is some kind of raging sexist. In other words, Cole's intentions may actually be good, but he's inadvertently (I think that's the exact word Armando uses) gliding over issues of sexism in a way that highlights our broader cultural failings.
On the other hand, I agree that Armando's ego is easily bruised. He needs to breathe before responding to comments.
__________________________Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
He actually doesn't offer any such caveat
Armando creates that impression through juxtaposing different parts of Cole's article. It may or may not be a reasonable interpretation of what Cole meant, but it's not exactly what Cole said. An alternative interpretation would be that the behavior breached community norms, but Clinton supporters reacted to it on a personal rather than community level. Note that Cole is discussing the reaction of different groups (Clinton supporters, Obama supporters) to perceived attacks, not evaluating the attacks themselves, and note also that these groups != society as a whole.
__________________________Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
I'm just restating his argument.
Whether he's right about it is another question, but I thought kindness' way of describing it was inaccurate - and if Armando's way of describing Cole's piece was inaccurate, then we've got a whole trail of inaccuracies going here. :)
__________________________Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Right-o
Sounds like blogging in a nutshell =)
__________________________Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
Very hard to type
when you're in a nutshell.
*rimshot
Thanks, folks, I'll be here all week!
__________________________Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Inaccurate. you really think so?
John Cole first starts out comparing speeches both Hillary & Obama make and suggests that Hillary's use of I and me differ vastly from the stance and message she is projecting to that which Obama is trying to project. Cole then goes on to say that the Dems need to come together to win. I don't see any sexism in John Coles post thats overt or discreet.
But if you track BTD over the course of the last many months, he's on a tear to bring charges of sexism wrt Obama specifically and his supporters as to how they treat Hillary. That's been his schtick and he's got himself a whole group of camp followers that eat that stuff up. My guess is there are a lot of folks out there who really get off on that whole me (us) against the evil and oppressive world thing.
So....I beg to disagree with your perception of the whole matter. I don't think I misrepresented Coles post nor BTD's. And honestly, my whole point was that I was offended that someone of BTD's blogsphere stature would stoop to the tactics he used, specifically when dealing with my posting. I said BTD left out crucial content and misrepresented what John Cole was trying to say. Armondo has his good traits. He's also shown himself to be less than intellectually honest in gathering and maintaining his flock. That was my bitch and I'm sticking to it. Honestly, I deleted TL from my bookmark file. I really don't care to read him any more. No doubt it won't mean anything to TalkLeft, and that doesn't matter nor do I really care. That wasn't the whole point.
Blogs can be judged not only by the main threads but also by the content and interaction of the community that comments in it. When you apply that standart to TL, it isn't an attractive community on the whole, and BTD in particular has pissed off a good number of folks who used to hold him in high regard, especially by using the misdirection tactics he used with me. Sorry and I mean no offense to you or anyone else on a personal level but his actions aren't honest.
Integrity is important, especially to "progressives".
Exactly
But he is an Obama supporter. Just ask him.
Why has he been so vested in trashing Obama (media) and banning anyone that dares to not be a part of his little echo-chamber.
If he wants to discuss media bias, then he should discuss his own.
__________________________It is the economy, stupid.