Tuesday Open Thread

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Surprise! Puma PAC is a McCain front group!

OK, I'm not really surprised. Good investigative work though.

rumproast lists an e-mail corespondence with the creator of Puma PAC, Darragh Murphy favicon where Darragh is forced to conceed she has only previously given money to John McCain (2000), voted for McCain in the 2000 Massecusetts primary (where only republicans can vote in the primary). This was linked from:

pandagon favicon where they actually pulled the FEC documents showing the PAC was formed days before Hillary withdrew from the race.

So....more republican bait & switch. No actual persons will admit to being members of PUMA, but they seem to be showing up all over internet blogs claiming themselves to be angry Hillary supporters who will now vote for John McCain.

Straight Talk Express my ass!

…………

You have to admit, though,

it's pretty clever. It's too bad the Republicans didn't have another serious contender, because it'd be fun to create a "disgruntled Romneyite" group!

__________________________

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

………… parent

Has Puma owned up to this?

The site is awfully snazzy and I have always suspected that Gannon/Guckert is somehow behind the scenes. They are the folks that created the front for Larry Sinclair to 'sing' at the National Press Club.

I am happy they have been exposed.

__________________________

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

hey guys

Good morning all. I am still sick with fever so I am glad I am not actually near any of you :) The internet is fortunately fairly sterile.

__________________________

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

…………

Depends on the site...

Goatse anyone?

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

let's not give our young impressionable members

any disgusting nightmares! :)

__________________________

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

oh and

the horrible side effect of my illness, whatever the hell it is, is I can't look at the computer screen for more than hour without getting tired and often much less. That is pretty horrible for someone like me. I am at work now but have to look away from my computer most of the time. Sucks for reading the news too!

__________________________

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

Watch me torture ender...

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Woah, trippy

must. look. away...

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

thanks man :) n/t

__________________________

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

All your retinas

are belong to me. :)

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

First detainee emerges from legal black hole

You guys probably talked about this yesterday (I was home sick), but in case not:

A federal appeals panel found that the designation of a Chinese detainee held in U.S. custody as an “enemy combatant” was “not valid” (pdf) because the classified evidence offered by the government was not sufficient to sustain the charge.

In the first legal challenge to enemy combatant status, Huzaifa Parhat, an ethnic Uighur, admitted to being an enemy of the People’s Republic of China but denied any connection with al Qaida or the Taleban and specifically denied that he was an enemy of the United States.

Military prosecutors argued that he qualified as an enemy combatant because he was “affiliated” with military forces that were “associated” with al Qaida and the Taleban.

In a straightforward but nevertheless thrilling exercise of judicial authority, judges said that the classified evidentiary basis for that argument could not be independently validated and was therefore inadequate.

“We must be able to assess the reliability of that evidence ourselves,” the judges wrote.

Amusingly the court found that the GOvernment's case was literally based on Alice in Wonderland nonsense:

“The government suggests that several of the assertions in the intelligence documents are reliable because they are made in at least three different documents. We are not persuaded,” the court said.

Adding a literary flourish, the judges wrote that “the fact that the government has ’said it thrice’ does not make an allegation true. See LEWIS CARROLL, THE HUNTING OF THE SNARK 3 (1876) (’I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true.’).”

Likewise, they wrote, “the government insists that the statements made in the [classified evidentiary] documents are reliable because the State and Defense Departments would not have put them in intelligence documents were that not the case. This comes perilously close to suggesting that whatever the government says must be treated as true, thus rendering superfluous both the role of the Tribunal and the role that Congress assigned to this court.”

In a court of law, the prosecution must prove its case and not simply assert it, the judges explained.

Source

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

This should be funny

In a court of law, the prosecution must prove its case and not simply assert it, the judges explained.

but given the context it is instead simultaneously sad and infuriating.

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

Words

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone," it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Metamaterials

From CNN : "Scientists set sights on invisibility cloaks." It's a lot less exciting than the headline suggests, but still interesting. And there's more futuristic technology to come: Besides the cloaking models, Milton is working on a different project, "something similar to a force shield in 'Star Trek,' " he said.

I can't get to the site but I assume they are talking about metamaterials. While the idea of invisibility materials has captured a lot of media attention I suspect they won't be much more than curiosities. The real developments with metamaterials will probably be much more esoteric. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start showing up in cutting edge optical computing and signals. Probably a bunch of applications I can't even imagine too :)

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Force Fields for Modeling of

Force Fields for Modeling of Ionic Liquids favicon

__________________________

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

Careful of the terminology

"force field" is not an unusual term in physics. Any electromagnetic field is a force field (i.e. a region of space in which an appropriate target will experience a physical force) as is any gravity well. Obviously that's quite different from the scifi use of the term which essentially involves using energy to cancel out other sources of energy, or even to annihilate matter, at a distance.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Ironically

I realized today that one of the jobs I'm working on uses what I'm fairly sure is a metamaterial. Didn't even know it (and no, it isn't invisible). :)

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

The reason you need two invisibility cloaks is.....

...if you lost one, it would be impossible to find.

__________________________

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” --- Albert Einstein

…………

Down on GG

who seems shocked favicon that faith-based charity might involved actual religious organizations.

Some days I just hate the internets.

Look, this is really simple. Suppose I run a Catholic church. I have the legal right to discriminate in my hiring practices for religious positions (like priest) on the basis of faith. Now suppose that same church runs a non-religious charitable program. I no longer have the legal right to discriminate if the work isn't religious in nature.

Along comes the government, and they think my charity is sweet, so they want to kick in some $$. I'm cool with that. GG, not so much, because my church still "discriminates" in matters entirely unrelated to this charitable program by not hiring Buddhists as priests or whatever. OMG the horror!

Then we get the argument that there's some shell game going on such that I'd be discriminating with the federal funds anyway. From the usually logical Digby, quoted approvingly by GG: Money is fungible. Catholic charities using "government money" for child care but using "their own" money to discriminate in other areas is an accounting method not a meaningful distinction.

WTF does that even mean? So if they swap out the collection plate money for the federal check, then turn rapidly in a circle and ask you to pick a hand, does that mean they can suddenly discriminate within the charitable program? Nope! Does it mean they can take the money earmarked for the charitable program and spend it on churchy stuff? Of course not! Oh, wait, those tricky Catholics might mix the different accounts together and then reseparate them... somehow the federal money might get dirty, even though the AMOUNT that is spent on churchy and charity doesn't change.

Do GG and Digby seriously think that the feds just give the churches a wad of unmarked bills and say hey, go do good... but not churchy stuff!

Probably not. Probably GG and Digby just don't like the idea of federal funding for faith-based charity, period. Heaven forbid they just said that, instead of tripping over nonsensical arguments while puffing righteous indignation.

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

…………

It makes sense to me...

Then we get the argument that there's some shell game going on such that I'd be discriminating with the federal funds anyway. From the usually logical Digby, quoted approvingly by GG: Money is fungible. Catholic charities using "government money" for child care but using "their own" money to discriminate in other areas is an accounting method not a meaningful distinction.

WTF does that even mean?

I don't know it seems to make sense to me-
By paying for the church's proselytizing charity events you are helping them to devote the funds that would normally go to that to other things.

Hence "fungible." When you relieve the church of one financial burden you are essentially subsidizing all of their other activities.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

If that's how you view it, then

you're against federal funding of faith-based charity period.

Which is fine, but that's not the case that GG laid out against Obama.

Let me rephrase that last.

I think both GG and Digby are clearly against faith-based charity, period, and if they would stick to making that case I would probably disagree but it's not a big deal.

My objection was to the implication throughout his piece that Obama's particular plan is somehow a departure from "the norm" that permits new or additional discrimination.

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

I agree with that

But then I also favor revoking the tax exempt status for churches :)

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

I could be convinced...

of one or the other, perhaps. Both is redundant to the point of being excessively harsh. Revoking the tax exempt status almost compells the government to afford churches the same "rights" as private businesses. Which means they should be eligible for publicly-financed grants.

__________________________

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

Last I checked

businesses aren't allowed discriminatory hiring practices and have to pay taxes. Churches are exempted in both cases.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

I agree

Which is why I said I could be convinced of one or the other. Either give churches the responsibilities and benefits of a business, or neither the responsibilities nor benefits of a business, but not the responsibilities without the benefits. The current status quo is to some extent getting the benefits without the responsibilities, which is I presume what you are mainly objecting to.

__________________________

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

But SL

Why wouldn't you treat them exactly like a business, which requires both? Right now they are gettiong away on two counts. You say that only letting them get away on one is somehow fair? Seems like that's still letting them get away with something for no good reason...

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Not the same

Businesses are eligible for government contracts, are they not? It seems like you have been saying that churches should not get any government money, but they should also be paying taxes, etc. That is not treating them exactly like a business. Maybe we agree here and I am misinterpreting your comment here regarding government money going to religions? If the government wants to spend money on charitable endeavors, should religious charities be eligible to apply for such funds or not?

__________________________

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

Businesses with discriminatory practices

are not eligible for government grants, it is just that in addition they are subject to fines and other penalties.

break it down like this:

Church (current):
no taxes
can discriminate
can get government funds

Business:
taxed
can't discriminate
can get government funds

Church (ideal 1):
taxed
can discriminate
can't get government funds

Church (ideal 2):
taxed
can't discriminate
can get government funds

I'm okay with either of the latter two but there's no way churches will go for #2.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Discriminatory practices

I guess it depends on what you mean by discriminate. Looking back at Brendan's original post, I tend to agree with what he has to say. If the program that is receiving the government funding is not discriminatory, then I have no problem with it. Asking a church not to consider religion when hiring, say, a pastor, is nonsensical, so if that is what you mean by your ideal 2, then yes, there's no way churches will go for it, and with very good reason.

There is also the category of non-profit organizations, which are not taxed, can't discriminate, and can get government funds. Not exactly sure how this fits into the equation, but I suspect most church programs that would be receiving government funds would be much more akin to a non-profit than a for-profit business. 

__________________________

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

We mostly agree I think

If the program that is receiving the government funding is not discriminatory, then I have no problem with it.

But by supporting the non-discriminatory part of the organization you are also supporting the rest of the organization. I find that unacceptable. The KKK may run a kick ass daycare but they don't get one dime. Even if they'll hire blacks for the daycare facility.

Asking a church not to consider religion when hiring, say, a pastor, is nonsensical, so if that is what you mean by your ideal 2, then yes, there's no way churches will go for it, and with very good reason.

It isn't nonsensical. Being a pastor is a job, nothing more or less. That job is to deliver sermons that reinforce their churches declared paradigm of belief. What the person actually believes or how they live when not at work has no bearing on their job.

The problem here is the fiction that a priest or pastor is anything but a demagogue spouting a viewpoint for money. It's precisely the same as any talking head in the Media. Pastors just have better PR for some strange reason.

There is also the category of non-profit organizations, which are not taxed, can't discriminate, and can get government funds.

isn't that exactly my ideal scenario #2? It's not like Greenpeace is allowed to discriminate in some units and not in others. It is all or nothing. Churches should face exactly the same thing.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Bill Donohue to the rescue

“If a customer walked into a New York deli and said, ‘Let me have a hot dog on a roll—hold the frankfurter’—he’d likely be thrown out. That’s what the public should do to Obama’s faith-based initiative: since he wants to gut the faith from his faith-based programs, he should be told to junk it.

“Any church or religious agency that agrees to take federal money on the condition that it must operate in a secular fashion—in hiring and in disseminating its values—is selling out. If Orthodox Jews running a day care center are not allowed to exclusively hire Orthodox Jews, there is nothing kosher about it. If a Catholic foster care program cannot place Catholic children with Catholic parents, it is doing a disservice to the children. If an evangelical drug rehab program can’t deliver a Christian message to its clients, it may as well close up shop. But that’s what Obama wants—he wants to secularize the religious workplace.

“No wonder Obama said yesterday that ‘I’m not saying that faith-based groups are an alternative to government or secular nonprofits, and I’m not saying that they’re somehow better at lifting people up.’ Indeed, if he really believes this then he might as well withdraw his initiative.

“The whole purpose behind funding faith-based programs is that they are, in fact, superior to secular programs. And the reason they are has everything to do with the inculcation of religious values disseminated by people of faith. No matter, Obama wants to gut the religious values and bar religious agencies from hiring people who share their religion. Hence, his initiative is a fraud.”

Heh, you can always count on Bill to be a first class dip^%$$.

Stay classy, Catholic League!

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Here we go again.

“The whole purpose behind funding faith-based programs is that they are, in fact, superior to secular programs. And the reason they are has everything to do with the inculcation of religious values disseminated by people of faith.

Irish Religious Values of greater superior value over secular values. favicon

People are people, whether they help others because they think it will help to convert them or because they solely want to help favicon

__________________________

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

I have no problem with funding faith-based charities

I've mentioned before that I used to run a Habitat for Humanity affiliate.

We had a policy of accepting government funding for only certain things -- like land and infrastructure development. We did not accept government money for building materials or other program needs for two main reasons:

1. We did not want to become dependent on government funds. A charity that gets most of its funds from government gets lazy and loses touch with its business community. Having to plead for money keeps your nose to the grassroots.

2. We did not want government having any say-so in how we built homes or whether we would be allowed to give Bibles to homeowners when they moved in or whether we could say a prayer before each workday.

During my tenure I applied for and received about $120,000 in HUD funding to buy land and development a small 12-home subdivision. That money paid for site development, a cul de sac, curbs, sanitary sewer, water line, fire hydrant and the interstate-highway-grade storm drain the city made me install. It did not pay for the wetlands delineation survey I had to pay for because our proerty adjoined a dry creek, but I did find an engineer who did it for half price.

If HUD had decided to develop that same 12-home subdivision by itself it would have cost $1.2 million.

Were there strings attached to that money? Sure. There was the wetlands survey, a noise assessment, requirements to seek minority contractors to bid on the development work (none did), pledges not to discriminate in selecting homeowners (we didn't anyway) and a timetable for finishing the project.

It was a pain in the ass but nothing would have gotten done without it.

Of course, just throwing money at a charity with no oversight or rules is inviting abuse. Grants should be tailored in such a way that they pay for the service or goods that the charity is dispensing and that those receiving the service do not have to pass some sort of religious test.

For instance, funding the Salvation Army would be OK if the money went to pay the electric bills of poor people who have had their heat turned off and as long as those people weren't required to participate in any religious activity.

__________________________

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

You know, I'm very pleased

that my rambling rant produced such useful discussion (here and above).

If you had not received the money from HUD would Habitat have looked for private donations to develop there, or just moved on? Did they ever put significant non-gov $$ towards land purchases?

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

It would not have happened

We would have built fewer homes because we would have been restricted to building on lots in existing subdivisions as we could find them. Land is expensive in the county we worked in and $120K is a lot more than any church or company would have given.

__________________________

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

two comments re: Spy bugs

(from the "of interest" area in the left column)

1) I found out recently that Theremin, the guy who invented the musical instrument of the same name, was also the first person to develop an electronic "bug" (as in an audio recording device for listening in on conversations illicitly).

2) An online acquaintance some years back said he knew someone working with the NSA on Bee migration. Third hand internet rumors for the win!

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Fascinating thread

Wow. One of the most interesting threads I've read on Redstate in a long time. The topic is that of 2nd amendment rights and being able to carry a concealed gun in an airport.

The thread is interesting not only because there is some actual debate on the matter but also due to who lines up on the various sides. For instance I'm not entirely surprised to see Achance taking a more nuanced view of the matter, but Joliphant? He/she is almost always hard right, reflexively so. It ends up being pretty fascinating to witness.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

We have to take off our shoes

go through the metal detector, or an x-ray machine but being armed at the airport is okay if you have a conceal and carry permit?

Does not compute.

__________________________

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

People can have the right to guns for defense,

not the right to have guns just for the sake of having guns.

Is anyone aware of the obvious questions:
Has anyone ever come across a situation in an airport in which the gun owner could have legally fired a shot?
How likely is there going to be a situation in which one can legally fire a shot?

Remember, protecting property doesn't give one the right to use deadly force.

__________________________

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

………… parent

You have to consider the implications. Shooting a gun at

50,000 feet in the air can have unfortunate consequences. It is a reeeaaallly dumb idea to allow anyone other than an air marshall to be allowed to carry a gun on to a plane.

………… parent

To be clear, the RS article

was talking about carrying a gun in the airport, not onto a plane.

Although at least one commentor suggests (maybe joking, maybe) that passengers on a plane should be issued guns and rubber bullets.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent