but rest assured I don't know of any poll on any issue that would first educate Americans on the history, exact growth, facts of where the money is being spent, facts on how that money previously affected the people in question, etc etc.
It would be suicidal for republicans to govern based on those types of polls designed to get specific results from uninformed (in this case 99% of US) citizens. Am I blaming the US public for being uninformed? Of course not. That would be silly as it makes no sense for an average American to spend many hours pouring over the various articles and scientific studies on the different programs.
However our American citizens deserve to not be taken advantage of by the duplicitous polling outfits who serve a specific agenda. Unfortunately as long as there are polls on the non-superficial subjects we will have meaningless results being used to bash opponents of socialism over the head.
Republicans must use their convictions to govern, instead of the "views" of their constituents. Run on your convictions and govern on them. America will be better off.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
are rejecting the conservative idea of small government.
This part is true:
Sure, scientifically speaking, the people answering these polls are accurate representation of America.
This part is unverified:
An accurate representation of a people completely clueless to the actual detail of where and how our budget money is being spent.
This part is BS:
liberals use emotionally charged but low on rationality, reason and fact rhetoric. You begin to understand how they win and how republicans surrender.
Governing for the common good is entirely rational. Pretending to govern for the common good while secretly selling out to corporate interests in such a way as to enrich the supposed guardians of the public interest (what the Bush GOP is doing) is scandalously selfish and has nothing to do with rationality.
Instead or "raising taxes" how bout accountability for the spending. The waste of tax dollars is mind boggling. Is there any oversight at all. No.
Ask liberals if they want their property taxes raised, you might get a different answer.
The ONE thing we can find in common, I think, is that conservatives believe in education, as being vital to say the children of Iraq, as a way of defeating "terrorist attitudes". Aren't our own children worth at least the same investment?
Sorry education is important to people with children. It is just a reality.
I have no idea why you have to put it in terms of liberal/conservative.
Like we are raising liberal or conservative children??
We should raise children to be curious and capable of making their own decisions, not mold them to be Club for Growth members.
Ender, I think the people know, because they know someone--a parent, relative who is receiving Social Security, Medicare, they have children in public schools, they would at one time would be laid off and use safety net, --they know what they are talking about. It is their daily life.
Then they hear excesses--Halliburton charging government $45 for soda, billions unaccounted for, Katrina waste on no-bid contracts--like the cruise ships, $300B on Iraq(compared to $83B for education). Lobbying money in Congress, etc.
Terry Schiavo stunt--I knew that would backfire on the Republicans because most Americans have gone through those family decisions for a parent, aunt....and they wouldnt want govt to interfere.
It was easier to delude people on WMD and Saddam's connection to 911 because it is not part of their daily life. Just repeat and repeat and they would believe it
but regarding medicare, social security, public education--no you wont be able to touch that because people benefit from it and live it.
Aren't our own children worth at least the same investment?
"We should invest in education" and "the federal government should invest in education" are two *VERY* different statements.
I would favor the former statement, but not the latter. I fail to see why we should have a federal Department of Education.
I would never trust the government to run a an efficient or cost-effective supermarket where I could buy food. And likewise, I don't trust the government to run efficient or cost-effective schools. Institutions need to be subjected to market forces in order to force them to be efficient. And government institutions are rarely, if ever, subject to market or even market-like forces.
If we want to improve our colleges, let's start by getting rid of tenure. If we want to improve our elementary and secondary public schools, let's start by getting rid of the teachers' unions. It is impossible to run an organization of any sort effectively when you cannot fire incompetent employees.
The amount of money being spent on our schools is not the problem. We are spending a lot of money already and we are getting very poor results.
I thought this was a pretty good (and funny) summary of the financial state of our public schools:
I think what you just wrote only illustrates my point. People know because they live it... I think the knowledge of what the government is spending and how must be arriving to them by special radio waves. Kinda like osmosis.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
The Post Office seems to work well. Or would you argue that should be privatized.
No Child Left Behind....... Federal Program, completely underfunded, is a big fat
joke. Teachers hate it (My sister is a teacher, so I hear the horror stories)
Setting Federal Priorities is called leadership. Our public schools are in decline, I would suggest more from an overload of immigrants, non english speaking immigrants that are literally flooding the schools.
Every school in my area that is in troulbe is in a heavily Mexican neighborhood. One in an all Mexican neighborhood closed last year. What do you think those kids are up to now. Drugs, crime and too much idle time.
The half and half schools, are dominated by gangs, and hoodlums with parents that work so many hours they are exhausted.
Your precious market forces (cheap labor) are what is giving rise to the immigrant population and what is burdening our teachers and classrooms to the breaking point.
Don't worry. Teachers are fed up and leaving the education field in droves. That is your market forces at work.
I do not worship your market forces god.
Accountabilitiy for teachers, pay raises based on performance is more practical.
It is a discussion worth having in search of solutions. Market forces...... more and more kids are being force out of higher education. Less grants, higher interests rates on the loans.
Who wins........ banks, who charge higher interest rates. Do you really want banks to be in charge of our education policies.
government once they got control for the government.
But somehow, I don't see that mentioned anywhere here in Enders post. & I do find that strange, because previously, Ender, you were one of the consitent republican advocates who were disappointed by the current spending and budgeting of our government.
I think we all agree the current priorities are not appropriate. Were we all differ is which priorities are more important than others.
Do you think that the Federal government should turn over our entire infrastructure to private companies? All roads are toll roads? Military run by mercenary contracts (Hey, you wanna invade Iraq? Well, spend money on the PNAC INC so they have enough to pay for the weapons and mercenaries?
Police, Firefighters etc are all part of the infrastructure of the country. As is a basic education system. Coming from a Blue state, I understand the frustration in that we have to fund Red state education, but it's the price I have to pay in order to have an educated population.
If I ever meet someone who agrees with the majority on every issue, both political and personal, I'm going to take a picture of the strangest person around.
A well informed moderate is typically someone who has well informed liberal opinions on some issues and well informed conservative opinions on others.
Now, I'll agree the 'Undecideds' leading up to the last election were pretty clearly uninformed nitwits; but I think that applies to the majority that voted for Bush as well, so what do I know?
levels of uninformed nitwits. My point is when it comes to knowing the specifics of our government spending for a competent answer to many of those polls, 99% of US fall into that category. The simpler polls about who people support based on candidate's ideology do not require such indepth knowledge and the number of nitwits drops.
I agree with you on your well informed moderate description. I was obviously referring to the nonsense about knowledgeable people having "mainstream" or middle-of-the-road views, whatever that actually means.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
let me just be clear that I do not hold being nitwits on some very complex issues against the American people. I would frankly feel unqualified if a pollster called me up and asked me my opinion on whether stem cell research will eventually lead to a cure for Alzheimers.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
And they always ask readers whether they want to see more or less coverage of (fill in the blank). Invariably the readers always say they want to see more coverage of everything. Why not? Doesn't cost them anything. And it makes you sound stupid if you say you don't want to know more about floods in Bangladesh and such.
The surveys also ask readers how often they read the Food section and the Sports section and the Business section, etc. People always say they read most sections of the paper -- which is utter BS. I have suggested that a survey should include a question about a non-existent section like "How often do you read the Hobby section?" I'd bet that a sizable number of people would say that they actually read the Hobby section.
Imagine if the Harris poll asked people if they thought the government was spending enough money to help the distressed widget industry. Some people would say yes, some would say no.
Of course, a pollster would never ask a question like that because it would detract from the credibility of the poll.
I figured you'd probably agree. I'm still waiting for the squirming explanation as to how moving physical things and shooting stuff is the job of the Federal Government, but educating people isn't.
After all, education isn't a truck, it's more like a series of tubes... ;-)
thus writing deep theretical treatises on the conclusions from decades of those polls is about as scientific as tracking the viability of those distressed widgets.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Read it if you dare. And tell me what you disagree with in this article written by a long time and staunch conservative Republican who promoted for Bush relection twice!
Conservatives are the party of realism aren't they! So what is he saying that is not realistic??? Specifically. Your homework assignment.
When you have a location that has a lot of stress in it, you need to get the stress out in the open.
Let's take the San Andreas fault. Rather than WAITING for the earthquake, we should just drop a nuclearnucular Bunker Bustin' Tactical Nucular weapon there so the massive destruction occurs on OUR schedule and not the earthquakes. Plus, that'll teach other fault lines that we are not to be trifled with!
OUCH!!! OK, that focusing effort was kinda painful
After all there is the post destruction, economic boost of rebuilding. It's good for the economy. I'll break it, and then I will get rich fixing it. I own all the repair shops. Those that I don't own are owned by my friends.
Life, which you so nobly serve, comes from destruction, disorder and chaos. Take this empty glass. Here it is, peaceful, serene and boring. But if it is...[knocks glass off of the table] destroyed... [robots appear to clean the mess] Look at all these little things. So busy now. Notice how each one is useful. What a lovely ballet ensues; so full of form and color. Now, think about all those people that created them. Technicians, engineers, hundreds of people who'll be able to feed their children tonight so those children can grow up big and strong and have little teeny weeny children of their own, and so on and so forth. Thus, adding to the great chain... of life. You see, Father, by creating a little destruction, I'm actually encouraging life. In reality, you and I are in the same business. Cheers.
Comments :
I skimped on the examples of various questions
but rest assured I don't know of any poll on any issue that would first educate Americans on the history, exact growth, facts of where the money is being spent, facts on how that money previously affected the people in question, etc etc.
It would be suicidal for republicans to govern based on those types of polls designed to get specific results from uninformed (in this case 99% of US) citizens. Am I blaming the US public for being uninformed? Of course not. That would be silly as it makes no sense for an average American to spend many hours pouring over the various articles and scientific studies on the different programs.
However our American citizens deserve to not be taken advantage of by the duplicitous polling outfits who serve a specific agenda. Unfortunately as long as there are polls on the non-superficial subjects we will have meaningless results being used to bash opponents of socialism over the head.
Republicans must use their convictions to govern, instead of the "views" of their constituents. Run on your convictions and govern on them. America will be better off.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
You're just upset because people
are rejecting the conservative idea of small government.
This part is true:
This part is unverified:
This part is BS:
Governing for the common good is entirely rational. Pretending to govern for the common good while secretly selling out to corporate interests in such a way as to enrich the supposed guardians of the public interest (what the Bush GOP is doing) is scandalously selfish and has nothing to do with rationality.
The current climate being what it is.
Instead or "raising taxes" how bout accountability for the spending. The waste of tax dollars is mind boggling. Is there any oversight at all. No.
Ask liberals if they want their property taxes raised, you might get a different answer.
The ONE thing we can find in common, I think, is that conservatives believe in education, as being vital to say the children of Iraq, as a way of defeating "terrorist attitudes". Aren't our own children worth at least the same investment?
Sorry education is important to people with children. It is just a reality.
I have no idea why you have to put it in terms of liberal/conservative.
Like we are raising liberal or conservative children??
We should raise children to be curious and capable of making their own decisions, not mold them to be Club for Growth members.
I'm only half stupid
People know--they llive it.....
It is really about good government.
Ender, I think the people know, because they know someone--a parent, relative who is receiving Social Security, Medicare, they have children in public schools, they would at one time would be laid off and use safety net, --they know what they are talking about. It is their daily life.
Then they hear excesses--Halliburton charging government $45 for soda, billions unaccounted for, Katrina waste on no-bid contracts--like the cruise ships, $300B on Iraq(compared to $83B for education). Lobbying money in Congress, etc.
Terry Schiavo stunt--I knew that would backfire on the Republicans because most Americans have gone through those family decisions for a parent, aunt....and they wouldnt want govt to interfere.
It was easier to delude people on WMD and Saddam's connection to 911 because it is not part of their daily life. Just repeat and repeat and they would believe it
but regarding medicare, social security, public education--no you wont be able to touch that because people benefit from it and live it.
Investment in education
"We should invest in education" and "the federal government should invest in education" are two *VERY* different statements.
I would favor the former statement, but not the latter. I fail to see why we should have a federal Department of Education.
I would never trust the government to run a an efficient or cost-effective supermarket where I could buy food. And likewise, I don't trust the government to run efficient or cost-effective schools. Institutions need to be subjected to market forces in order to force them to be efficient. And government institutions are rarely, if ever, subject to market or even market-like forces.
If we want to improve our colleges, let's start by getting rid of tenure. If we want to improve our elementary and secondary public schools, let's start by getting rid of the teachers' unions. It is impossible to run an organization of any sort effectively when you cannot fire incompetent employees.
The amount of money being spent on our schools is not the problem. We are spending a lot of money already and we are getting very poor results.
I thought this was a pretty good (and funny) summary of the financial state of our public schools:
http://republican.se...
right
I think what you just wrote only illustrates my point. People know because they live it... I think the knowledge of what the government is spending and how must be arriving to them by special radio waves. Kinda like osmosis.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
before anyone comments on that
no, I do not think osmosis has any relation to radio waves.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
We are the Federal Government
Remember, "We the People"
The Post Office seems to work well. Or would you argue that should be privatized.
No Child Left Behind....... Federal Program, completely underfunded, is a big fat
joke. Teachers hate it (My sister is a teacher, so I hear the horror stories)
Setting Federal Priorities is called leadership. Our public schools are in decline, I would suggest more from an overload of immigrants, non english speaking immigrants that are literally flooding the schools.
Every school in my area that is in troulbe is in a heavily Mexican neighborhood. One in an all Mexican neighborhood closed last year. What do you think those kids are up to now. Drugs, crime and too much idle time.
The half and half schools, are dominated by gangs, and hoodlums with parents that work so many hours they are exhausted.
Your precious market forces (cheap labor) are what is giving rise to the immigrant population and what is burdening our teachers and classrooms to the breaking point.
Don't worry. Teachers are fed up and leaving the education field in droves. That is your market forces at work.
I do not worship your market forces god.
Accountabilitiy for teachers, pay raises based on performance is more practical.
It is a discussion worth having in search of solutions. Market forces...... more and more kids are being force out of higher education. Less grants, higher interests rates on the loans.
Who wins........ banks, who charge higher interest rates. Do you really want banks to be in charge of our education policies.
I'm only half stupid
Furthermore
Household deficeit is at an all time high. Why because of assest inflation.
How do you buy school supplies, books, computers, etc. Who benefits, the creditors or the banks.
See here
I'm only half stupid
Actually Mike, Conservatives were against small
government once they got control for the government.
But somehow, I don't see that mentioned anywhere here in Enders post. & I do find that strange, because previously, Ender, you were one of the consitent republican advocates who were disappointed by the current spending and budgeting of our government.
I think we all agree the current priorities are not appropriate. Were we all differ is which priorities are more important than others.
Known Facts or Liberal Talking Points
Reality has a liberal bias as you mock the truth.
John Q Public has kids wants good schools that are well funded.
What are we now showing too much sympathy and compassion for the children and their parents in this country by wanting them to have a good education.
The nerve of these liberals. I guess they shouldn't believe their eyes.
I'm only half stupid
It's called infrastructure
Do you think that the Federal government should turn over our entire infrastructure to private companies? All roads are toll roads? Military run by mercenary contracts (Hey, you wanna invade Iraq? Well, spend money on the PNAC INC so they have enough to pay for the weapons and mercenaries?
Police, Firefighters etc are all part of the infrastructure of the country. As is a basic education system. Coming from a Blue state, I understand the frustration in that we have to fund Red state education, but it's the price I have to pay in order to have an educated population.
Center = Mainstream
In otherwords, it doesn't exist.
If I ever meet someone who agrees with the majority on every issue, both political and personal, I'm going to take a picture of the strangest person around.
A well informed moderate is typically someone who has well informed liberal opinions on some issues and well informed conservative opinions on others.
Now, I'll agree the 'Undecideds' leading up to the last election were pretty clearly uninformed nitwits; but I think that applies to the majority that voted for Bush as well, so what do I know?
No I don't
But that is what they are doing.
Again, who the hell are these people, that imho, think that destroying America is saving it.
Answer: The same ones that think that war is peace in the Middle East.
I'm only half stupid
there are various
levels of uninformed nitwits. My point is when it comes to knowing the specifics of our government spending for a competent answer to many of those polls, 99% of US fall into that category. The simpler polls about who people support based on candidate's ideology do not require such indepth knowledge and the number of nitwits drops.
I agree with you on your well informed moderate description. I was obviously referring to the nonsense about knowledgeable people having "mainstream" or middle-of-the-road views, whatever that actually means.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I think the question was not directed to you n/t
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
also
let me just be clear that I do not hold being nitwits on some very complex issues against the American people. I would frankly feel unqualified if a pollster called me up and asked me my opinion on whether stem cell research will eventually lead to a cure for Alzheimers.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Newspapers often do reader surveys
And they always ask readers whether they want to see more or less coverage of (fill in the blank). Invariably the readers always say they want to see more coverage of everything. Why not? Doesn't cost them anything. And it makes you sound stupid if you say you don't want to know more about floods in Bangladesh and such.
The surveys also ask readers how often they read the Food section and the Sports section and the Business section, etc. People always say they read most sections of the paper -- which is utter BS. I have suggested that a survey should include a question about a non-existent section like "How often do you read the Hobby section?" I'd bet that a sizable number of people would say that they actually read the Hobby section.
Imagine if the Harris poll asked people if they thought the government was spending enough money to help the distressed widget industry. Some people would say yes, some would say no.
Of course, a pollster would never ask a question like that because it would detract from the credibility of the poll.
qui tacet consentire
I answered it anyway
or is that against the rules?
I'm only half stupid
no, I just thought it was weird...
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I'm cool with it
I figured you'd probably agree. I'm still waiting for the squirming explanation as to how moving physical things and shooting stuff is the job of the Federal Government, but educating people isn't.
After all, education isn't a truck, it's more like a series of tubes... ;-)
indeed
thus writing deep theretical treatises on the conclusions from decades of those polls is about as scientific as tracking the viability of those distressed widgets.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
I think liberal logic
is like a series of tubes :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
While conservative logic
Is like a Tachyon
.
Sounds fascinating, but is purely theoretical and even if it DID exist somewhere, there's really no way we'd ever find it.
;-)
radicalizing the Middle East
so its like a hornets nest of angry wasps......
Ten Million Angry Muslim Teenagers with out Jobs or Parents. Should make for great neighborly relations with Israel.
Transformations Toll
Read it if you dare. And tell me what you disagree with in this article written by a long time and staunch conservative Republican who promoted for Bush relection twice!
Conservatives are the party of realism aren't they! So what is he saying that is not realistic??? Specifically. Your homework assignment.
I'm only half stupid
Look it's very simple
Here, I'll focus the NeoCon view for a moment
OUCH!!! OK, that focusing effort was kinda painful
various level of uninformed nit wits
yeah, we know. They all voted for Bush.
I'm only half stupid
I couldn't focus enough
on that article considering it was way way off topic.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Thanks for brightening my day
After all there is the post destruction, economic boost of rebuilding. It's good for the economy. I'll break it, and then I will get rich fixing it. I own all the repair shops. Those that I don't own are owned by my friends.
I'm only half stupid
You have to be ready for
all contingencies to occur at a moments notice.
Clearly you are not prepared for emergencies.
Therefore you get an F.
You will not survive
unless you become
one of us.
I'm only half stupid
Reminds me of a movie quote
Your comment
After all there is the post destruction
From the Fifth Element, the villain Zorg: