Islam's Contributions to Civilization: Mathematics

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Very interesting

Although one can't really call something a contribution if it had to be independently developed by somebody else.

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Sic semper tyrannis

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just because

a place or a people have done something good and advanced for their time in the past, doesn't mean they can't devolve into barbarism in the present. Which is what pretty much happened. Though I think their achievements were merely ok.

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Does that also

apply to Western culture. the devolving into barbarism I mean.

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It is the economy, stupid.

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yes it can apply to any culture

because none are perfect being human. But some are doing better than others. We've gone through our dark ages and through some real monsters but we've created the current world civilization.

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Then I can still make fun of the south?

For being the dark ages I mean. Come to think of it, isn't it the blue states that run the modern information age? New York, California, etc?

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you can still make fun

of whomever you want, regardless of the facts :)

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Isn't that the Red State Motto? n/t

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it's a good one

even if it isn't :)

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Renassaince,

age of reason, age of enlightenment and resulting development of democracy saved us from falling into theocratic tyranny ruling over a closed society. As long as we keep religion away from the government we're fine.

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Sic semper tyrannis

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And stop the consolidation of

wealth into the hands of the few.

This coporatcracy of multinational corporations is getting out of control.

Yesterday I went to Sears, and they had Craftsman clothing....... all made in Pakistan. I don't consider it a democracy when I can't purchase anything, NOT one thing from an American store that is not made in America.

I would rather show loyalty to my neighbor and my country than someone I don't even know half way around the world.

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It is the economy, stupid.

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somehow democracy

has absolutely nothing to do with where stuff gets made.

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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I would just like a choice

my choices are

made in Pakistan
made in India
made in Mexico
made in China
etc.

I was able to purchase Scotch Tape made in America though.

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It is the economy, stupid.

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democracy is not about

having a particular thing made in a place of your choosing. :) That depends on whether that particular thing was made there and not on you voting that factory into existence.

The unrelated fact is that US cannot and will not compete with the 3rd world in manufacturing. Their unskilled labor is just a lot cheaper so you can get used to it. You can't fix it with laws without ruining our economy. US will eventually only compete at the higher level of very skilled and technical jobs, as well as the services and financial sectors. And that is fine. Things change and interconnected global economy is good for everyone.

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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I have a lot of troulbe with that

It is hard for me to accept.

I would like to see a more even playing field as far fair trade policies, child labor etc.

The best example I can think of is ban on importation of cheaper drugs from Canada, though this is not labor. That is stifling competition, not encouraging it. Why the double standard? The answer lies in monopoly for profit at the expense of the consumer. The consumer loses out here. This seems to be a trend.

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It is the economy, stupid.

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We mut export unions, envtl laws, labor fairness

In order to have free trade countries must comply in the flollowing:

Encourage unions,

fair minimum wage

fair labor practices including child labor

environmental laws

*They dont have to equal US employees wages but they should at least be a middle class wage in their own countries.

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Democracy and Manufacturing

There seems to be a very strong relationship between democracy and where things get manufactured, it just happens to be an inverse instead of a proportional relationship. Or, to be more accurate, corporations can get cheaper labor in areas without a democracy.

My local republican correspondant even admitted that victory in Iraq was no longer about a democracy, but about having a capitalism.

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Actually

There is good reason that Europe developed so fast after being the most ignorant place on the planet.

Part of that was the sheer ignorance, and the need to decide if an idea had merit, but more important was the Black Plague, and the sudden wealth, and demand for labor from the survivors. The result is the first middle class since Roman times, and while things rose and fell in many particular places, the path led to us, and only happened because of the Middle class.

Thom Hartmann has a lecture here for those with enough curiosity to just listen. I am reading the actual book and there is a great deal more detail, but the lecture pretty much brings up the highlights.

It is worth noting that while learning and inventions exist back to antiquity, actual productive use of that knowledge, only happened with the rise of that middle class.

The reason is not hard to see. In every case doing things with ones own hands is not an upper class thing to do, and there was no great efficiency pressure, beyond environmental degradation, and that was usually too swift upon them for most changes.

The poor and slaves had no means to create better systems, and if they had done so , would only make their work harder,

That is the main reason that most of the third world is so "Third World". Globalization is proceeding to change much , but the biggest effect is pushing everything to "third world" status

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The Self Made Man is just not admitting where he got all the parts.

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How do you account for those barbaric Islamic Iranians

... voting against Ahmadinejad?

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If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?

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I must be stuck in that alternate universe

where Iranian elections matter.

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"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

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Iranian elections

In a rosier alternative universe where American elections mattered, Iran might well have been a secular Democracy now.

That was certainly the progress of things before Bush did for Iranian conservatives, what mostly Saudi Conservatives had done for him.

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The Self Made Man is just not admitting where he got all the parts.

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