Tuesday Open Thread
It sure was a fun discussion yesterday. The Bush State of the Union is coming up. Doesn't it seem like the violence in Iraq has calmed down a lot? Just a short while ago it was 50-100 a day and now we get maybe 15-30?
Castro is in serious condition with "diverticulitis complications" .
What's new with you guys?
Submitted by Ender on Tue, 2007-01-16 08:58
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Comments :
No it doesn't seem
like the violence in Iraq has calmed down. Read Juan Cole for more here
. If I were Bush and my ratings went down as much after speeches as his did after that "Surge" speech last week I'd think about skipping the State of the Union Speech. ;)
I don't know
but 9 killed in Baghdad is not all that bad compared to recent stuff.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
At least 26 killed
and about a hundred more wounded. (link
) Doesn't sound like much of an improvement to me.
ok, not a good day then
we'll see if a whole bunch of new troops changes that.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
They won't.
The insurgents will simply move somewhere else for a while. Kind of like trying to hold flowing water in your hands.
The same questions apply now to those promoting the phony "new strategy" that applied when I wrote this.
A few of my questions from that post for you, haystack, GoRight and Steve Foley who ran away and never came back:
Also from the same post:
I don't expect answers because the supporters of this "plan" don't have answers. I find it humorous and ironic that Bush, Cheney and McCain continue to demand those who oppose this stupid surge offer up a plan, as if the Iraq Study Group never existed (to name just one, more intelligent plan).
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
I am not
a big "supporter of this plan" necessarily. But I am interested to see what happens. It's not like anyone can influence whether it happens or not so I treat it as a done deal.
It doesn't look like there is much we can do so I won't offer any ideas of my own. Iraqis have to fix this mess unfortunately.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
You've certainly changed your tune from just a few
... short weeks ago.
Today you write this:
On December 10, you wrote this:
So one month has really turned you around, eh?
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
I am a lot more
pessimistic about it and there are two big factors affecting it:
Our ability to prevent degeneration is shown to be increasingly ineffective
and
There is obviously almost no political will left at home to do anything constructive in Iraq that involves keeping our troops there for an extended period of time - not that it would necessarily help (see first factor) but that is the only way to actually be responsible about what is happening there.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
So would you support phased withdrawal?
...
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
yeah, why not
Absent a will to do anything new in Iraq, I would support it - and I think that is what is going to happen anyways.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
"... a will to do anything new..."
Plugging 20,000 more troops into Iraq is new. Not smart, but new.
If you had your druthers, what would you do?
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
absent a will by anyone
else other than Bush... Bush is still willing to try "new" things but he is almost all alone.
At this point? I'd probably pull the troops out to the bases outside the cities and away from the patrols and putting down sectarian violence. Focus more on fighting insurgent strongholds and al qaeda. That would free up at least half of our forces to go home.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
That is the Murtha plan
I hear Pelosi talking too about changing the Iraq mission to --instead of just combat--make it a training mission.
Yeah, but Murtha is the devil.
At least that's what I've read at RedState.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
Don't post that to RedState.
You'll get banned.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
I think
they'd cut me some slack - plus I wouldn't say it there :)
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Make sure to compare apples and apples
There may be a dip in violence (or at least a slowing in its growth) over the next couple of months as winter tends to show such a drop. You'll have to compare the level of violence against last winter and it will have to be a sustained drop to have any correlation with the troop surge. So if there is a short drop and then a resurgence of violence, don't take that as a "It is a good strategy, let's surge more".
Yes, all quiet
on the Middle East front, except 109 killed today
by bombs. Oh yeah, 4 more US troops (3,026 total) were killed Monday.
I sense progress.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
We send the Chinese trillions. We buy from Russia.
We even buy from Vietnam. So what's the big deal with conservatives about Cuba?
Why are conservatives still pissed at a home grown revolutionary who kicked out a corrupt and undemocratic regime back in the 50's? Why? Because Cuba's so close to the US? Because he couldn't be bought?
China is a much bigger threat to the US interests. Me? I think it's because the rightwingers think this is one country we can financially ruin and get back.
Here's the thing. The people in Cuba....they don't like the financial straight jacket we've fitted them with, but they don't blame Castro for it. They like the system they have down there. It's the American Cubans that righties are appealing to because they still have a hard time swallowing the fact that they lost.
We should trade with and travel to Cuba just like China. If you claim we shouldn't, tell us why you aren't being hypocritical.
Florida Politics
If Florida was not a swingstate, we would be trading with Cuba and normal relations already.
Tom Tomorrow's This Modern World's new installment
titled The Very Bad Idea, part II
.
Tom Tomorrow is great.
Damn. THAT is funny. Sad, but funny. Especially this:
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
Lieberman
looks like a cross between a Victorian-era cherub and a pencil-pusher from a Dickens novel.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
oh yeah
did you guys watch 24 last night... wow.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Wow is right..
I thought somebody was gonna stop old dude before he flipped the switch.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
plus Jack
shooting Curtis... I mean it was the right thing to do but still crazy to see.
But yes, the nuke was wow.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Pajama Media's Michael Ledeen did an interview with
Salon.com just this weekend it appears. You really should read what he has to say.
via Digby, Should the IRS be cutting deals with large
Corporations, which let them off the hook for unpaid taxes, while still going after the middle class & the poor full throttle?
a Cliff Notes quote:
"Top officials at the Internal Revenue Service are pushing agents to prematurely close audits of big companies with agreements to have them pay only a fraction of the additional taxes that could be collected, according to dozens of I.R.S. employees who say that the policy is costing the government billions of dollars a year."
click through Digby's links. It's an abomination to American citizens. My only problem....I don't own a pitchfork.
Hey, what do you have against the free market?
I'm sure lordzorgon will be here momentarily to tell us why this is the correct course of action for the IRS.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
Exactly
Last night, he tried to tell me
that Greenspan and Nobel-prize winning economist, Joeseph Stiglitz
, don't know what they are talking about because they didn't agree that the poor having TVs and computers shows that the income gap between rich and poor is not increasing.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
Why did Israel shut down peace talks with Syria?
I don't have that answer. From this article in Haaretz.com, I can't understand why they wouldn't continue to pursue this. It seems to give Israel everything it wanted and was certainly much more advantageous in it's terms to Israel than to Syria.
WTF?
God's Chosen People: The Neoconservatives
don't need an mandate to do anything. I speak not of the Israeli people, but the leaders who in Israel, the NeoConservatives, and in this country who refuse to listen to their own citizens.
They have a mandate from God to take over the Middle East, remove the Arab threat, and reshape the world. That is what the people that refuse to cooperate on any level of negotiations believe.
I think they are insane.
Their pride has suffered a blow. What is worse than having a once powerful animal, trapped and wounded in a corner. They lash out in fear and desparation.
What is fascinating to me, is that both the hard right (David Duke) and the hard left (The Nation) view this man, in the world of "conspiracy theories" as responsible for much of the foreign and domestic policy we see in progress today.
In March of 1998 Norman Podhoretz wrote this Neoconservativsm: A Eulogy
Astonishing.
Their view:
No More Dirty Hippies (liberals)/More War/ Democracy Will Provide the End of HIstory
I'm only half stupid
Oh, and by the way...
Obama has declared..
I think.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
I think Obama
is a fine candidate for the Left. He is certainly eloquent and not extremely liberal. His main problem is lack of experience but otherwise he is inspiring.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
Fishing in Iran
from The Economist
It is also pretty well known Mr. Cheney that the US is fishing in troubled waters in Iraq.
The reality is how much of a threat is Iran to the US. They have a small GDP, a small population, 70% of which is opposed to their fanatical leader, and a fanatical leader who responds in kind with the sort of "cowboy politics" that Bush has engaged in for the last six years.
Attacking Iran would be sheer foolishness. And who realizes this, Mr. Freedom Fries, Walter Jones, who is sponsoring a Joint Resolution, that states
If the US attacks Iran, will it push the moderate pro-Western secular young population, that makes up a large part of their population to rally around an unpopular loud mouth President of Iran.
Walter Jones sponsors a Joint Resolution to Limit the Presidents Authority.
The Rules of Engagement
from Pat Buchannon The American Conservative
Why in light of everything that has transpired is this administration being so disrespectful to the will of the people, ignoring laws, circumventing the constitution, and thumbing their noses at world opinion.
Most astonishing is that they still continue to do so. Do they really know America?
Their is a concerted effort by both the left and the right to stop this administration from Executive Overreach. May it be successful.
I'm only half stupid
Because the neocons don't care about Sun Tsu,
They don't know his philosophies and if you brought him up in their midst, they'd have you thrown from the building.
They don't know about Iran, and they don't care to know.
They do what they do only to energize their fellow neocons & world dominion rabble. Everyone else, you, me, the elected majorities in the House & the Senate, don't mean a thing to them. We're all just crap they can't seem to scrape off their shoe.
Those pesky people
just pawns in their chess game.
Oh the inconvenience!
I'm only half stupid
The BBC has a good article on the Iranian populace
today too. Apparently, as per the BBC, there is "Growing pressure on Ahmadinejad"
to moderate his policies. The people are not happy about their top guy right now.
With that in mind, what do you think is going to happen? I suspect that the bush43 administration will do something dramatic & drastic to outrage the Iranian people and drive them back into the arms of the man they hate.
Hey, they did it to the Talibahn, they did it to the Iraqi people wrt Hussein. Why doubt they'll blunder down the same misadventure path again (it seems to be the only path they can stumble down, doesn't it).
While We are BoGGGGGGed Down in the Middle East
America's Low Profile in Asia Spells Trouble
from the Internation Herald Tribuine.
This is what I am talking about. Wake UP People. The No Child Left Behind meme can now be said of the United States. Only it is Every Nation Is Leaving the US Behind.
While we are bogged down in Iraq, the world summits that would in the past have looked to the US to counterbalance the rising stars of Russia and China, are carrying on without us.
A conferance of influence where the US is a no show.
This is RIDICULOUS. While China, and Russia and using briefcases to deal with the world at large, the US is busy trying to thwart the efforts of a small group of people that want to attack Iran.
Iran is the LEAST of our problems. Now box you have put us in guys!
The US is a No Show!
While they say globalization is the great equalizer the US is and will continue to, until it changes its UnREALISTIC foreign policy, continue to fall behind the rest of the world.
The longer we stay in the Middle East, the faster our power is waning. How stupid is that.
To wholly focus on the little country of Iraq right now as the answer to all of our problems is utter stupidity!
I'm only half stupid
Oh and thanks for the link.
What is the US going to do?
To lead this country out of this Quagmire, will require humility, admiting mistakes and a drastic change in foreign policy. Which means announcing to the world that US military solutions, do not work. They will not save the world, and it is time to come into the 21st Century with a NEW Attitude of humility and respect.
That we have all the weaponry, no longer matters. That we have the largest military no longer matters. War is not the answer and it should never have been.
If the neocons want to be truly neo, then they should update their PNAC and include this hard learned FACT. The best way to peace is with a Peace Corps, no a Military Corps.
Evil Dictators will not stand, because the people that live under them will not tolerate it. Technology says so.
Buy everyone in Iran an iPhone. They can then plan the overthrow of their own leaders. They don't need our nukes in their backyard.
I'm only half stupid
Jim Webb will give the response to SOTU
Wonderful news.
One of my favorite Senators. Why?
Because I think he can stand up to these people to help extract the US from the impending war in the middle east.
I'm only half stupid
That should be fun. Webb is not afraid to slug Bush.
Metaphorically, of course.
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
this is hilarious
Marxists' Apartment A Microcosm Of Why Marxism Doesn't Work
hahaha
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
So is this...
If you really believe this is the "fight of our lives," how come you're not in Iraq?
Hysterical!
They need to have the resolve and the capacity to sequence the mission.
If they were better capitalists they could Hire someone to clean up after them.
Or in the socialist norm, they could bring over a bunch of cute girls, and inspire themselves to make a better impression, and get the girls to do the job. One for all, all for one.
In the eyes of the great society, they need some counseling perhaps for their messiness and drinking problems, and an inspecter to come in once a week and regulate the situation.
Clearly they have let their situation deteriorate into anarchy. They have lost site of their principles!
I'm only half stupid
That reminds me of
this classic article
, also from the Onion:
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
The regional war
is beginning:
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
this is interesting
Though we would let Saudis to send their troops but never the Iranians... Well unless we leave completely. I would keep 20-30,000 troops to make sure Iranians do not enter the country.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
If the Saudis enter
the Iranians will pour over the border and we won't be abe to stop them. I don't think Iran will ask permission, and the Shiite-controlled Iraqi gov (including the actual gov of Sadr-like militias) will not help evict/support evicting them. Hence, we are in the middle of a regional war now that the buffer between the Sunnis and Shiites (Iraq) is shattered.
We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
What do you all think about The Justice Dept firing
US Attorneys around the country
(link via TPM Muckraker) and replacing them with "interm" attourneys who
a) don't have to go through senate confirmation
b) have all been Republican operatives in the past
Digby covered it today
and surprise surprise! Many of the Attourneys replaced were in the process of serving indictments to sitting Republican members of Congress.
I'm thinking we need to impeach both Dick & dubya. Otherwise, the next civil war we may be talking about will be right here in the good ole USA.
I was planning
on writing up a story on it so we can debate all the issues surrounding it. For the Left, it pretty much symbolizes what's wrong with the Adminstration, so I'd love to get a more thorough discussion with the Right. Thanks for the links.
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
I think
you are thinking too much but mostly you read too much of the shrill lefty stuff that is screaming about unrealistic pipe dreams of the fringe. No one cares and there will be no impeaching or even revoking of any resolutions.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
This is somewhat serious,
especially out in California. The U.S. Attorney who was forced to resign was popular and effective - and so far the sole person not extremely baffled and angred by the decision is the Republican Rep who's been trying to get her fired for years. Apparently her only major crime was successfully prosecuting Duke Cunningham. Gonzales is using a loophole in the revised Patriot Act to keep Congress from being able to approve her replacement.
We're up to at least 7 U.S. Attorneys similiarly forced out of office. That's just the known ones.
Is this really the judicial system you want?
Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce
Write that article pico.
The DiFi video from this morning on the Senate floor was good but unexciting.
Answer us this Ender, Why? I haven't seen a reasonable answer yet as to why these people were being forced to resign. Some, as the San Diego Attourney, WAS in the begining stages of getting more (apparently primarily republicans) officials indicted in the Duke Cunningham ring. Do you think Duke was able to do all that by himself? favors were bought and sold. That's what representatives do. We just don't want any of our representatives selling their votes for money. I would think you would agree with that.
Can Governers Interfere?
This is a subversion of due process.
Patrick Leah is on the case, but really this is bogus. What are they trying to hide and why?
This is really crossing the line. Hopefully Keith O. And Joe Scarboro will get a hold of this, and the rest of the so called "liberal" media, and it will soon be front page news.
Shocking. And these people preach democracy.
I'm only half stupid
Truly Frightening
that is what I think.
This goes beyond the pale, and is a clear subversion of justice.
Who can we get to impeach the attorney general???
Putting the corrupt in charge, to cover the asses of the corrupt.
Sounds like something Stalin/Cheney would do.
I'm only half stupid