Health care anecdotes

I've always been reasonably healthy, don't need to visit the doctor much, and have never had major surgery. Consequently, my evaluation of our health care system mostly comes from second-hand reports: conversations with family and friends, articles in newspapers or magazines or blogs, statistics found online. The upside of this situation is that I have some detachment and perhaps a little more objectivity than I would otherwise, but the downside is that I am not personally confronted with the frustrating trade-offs that often characterize health care in the US and so I'm not required to think too deeply about them. That's changed now that I have a young child. We recently visited the ER (he's fine) and in the aftermath I found myself wondering about the competing incentives that drive decisions related to medical care, particularly in an urgent or emergency situation.

Let me actually start with two anecdotes about health care that I recently stumbled across online. The first , from Balloon Juice, favorably compares the availability of care in the US to that in countries with centralized systems: 

You’ll remember that, a couple days ago, I told you my dad had a minor stroke because he has 69% blockage in his carotid artery.

Well, today he found out that they will not operate on him. He has to have 90% blockage in order to be considered.

If you want socialized medicine in this country, know what you are getting into. The decision about my dad was not made from a health perspective. If it was, he’d have been in the operating room already. It was made from a rationing perspective, and I am pissed off royally. It would not have happened here.

There  is some discussion in the comments about what is the standard within the US to operate under these circumstances, but let us abstract the general point being made: if one has good insurance in the US, it is often easier to obtain surgery in "borderline" cases than it would be in a "socialized" system. (The caveats there are obviously of prime importance.) This is a reasonable conclusion if there is a cap on the total cost of health care that is less than what we would pay were all the "borderline" cases to result in surgery. I don't know if that's what universal health care would look like in the US; presumably there would be some sort of method of containing costs, meaning some restriction of access for borderline cases, but we as Americans seem to demand a very high standard of care. Maybe the compromise would be a single-payer public system providing basic and emergency care alongside a private system providing elective, cosmetic, or "expert" care that people could buy into (via insurance, I suppose).

The second story, from Obsidian Wings, discusses an emergency surgery:

As you might have noticed, I haven't been around for the last few days. This is because, after getting hit with excruciating pain late Sunday night, heading to the emergency room early Monday morning, and having a series of increasingly high-tech tests, the doctors decided I needed emergency surgery, which I had Monday night. Nothing serious (though it would have been had I not gotten treatment), no complications, and I seem to be recovering nicely.

[...] Luckily, I do have health insurance. That meant that I was able to focus on doing what I had to do to get better, and that I was not tempted, for instance, to skip out after the initial tests, which were equivocal. (I did wonder, as they wheeled me into the Department of Nuclear Medicine for the last test, whether this was some of that unnecessary care I sometimes read about. I was wrong: that was the test that led them to decide to operate within the hour.)

There are two points to take from this: first, the state of insurance coverage can impact whether the patient wants high-tech and costly testing, which can impact whether such tests are performed, which can impact whether surgery is done. Second, those tests can uncover potentially life-threatening conditions that wouldn't simply disappear were the tests not ordered; there would be emergency care provided down the road regardless, except that the patient would face much greater risk, potentially including death. Not discussed here is the incentive from the hospital side to conduct such tests, which can make money (as well as potentially saving lives) -- in a perfect world decisions about medical care would not be affected by the ability of the patient to pay, but one wonders whether un/underinsured patients should expect to be offered the same tests as those with good insurance. On the flip side, patients paying out of pocket may be given a discount, suggesting that the cost for insured patients is inflated; either insured patients are essentially subsidizing the others, or the hospital is taking a loss due to un/underinsured care. Finally, the hospital wants to shield itself from lawsuits, and the best way to do this is to run lots of tests.

Our little adventure began Friday evening, when the baby became unusually irritable and started crying a lot. He's normally extremely happy, so this was odd. He didn't sleep well and continued to fuss and cry in the morning. He's had a cough for a while, and my wife and I both got sick earlier in the week but he didn't, so one possibility was that he was just sick. He also fell over at day care Friday and bumped his head -- he's at the stage where he can sit up and crawl around, and I guess he just tipped over. (Our day care is generally excellent, we're quite pleased with it.) There was a little mark and minor bruising. Anyway, being the first time parents that we are, we figured we should just check in with the doctor and see if there was anything we should be doing. Since it was a weekend the pediatrician didn't offer normal clinical hours, so we called urgent care. They were concerned, probably predictably, about his head. They didn't have staff available at that time to conduct the tests they wanted to do and so they told us to go to the ER.

He was admitted to the ER with a normal temperature, and the doctor found no signs of an ear infection (good, since he'd had one earlier that we treated) and no signs of pneumonia; from visual inspection he seemed fine. He wasn't projectile vomiting, which could have indicated serious head trauma. The doctor wanted to be sure there was no bleeding or swelling in the brain, so he ordered a CT scan . I suppose this is typical defensive medicine. It wasn't much fun for the baby, he had to get strapped down, but to paraphrase Dizzy Dean they scanned his head and found nothing. That was a relief, anyway, and so we headed home. Eventually the baby cheered up (although he's still a little cranky on and off) and we're left guessing as to what happened: maybe he was sick, or constipated, or teething.

Our insurance will presumably (hopefully) pay for most of this visit, which is convenient for us because apparently CT scans in particular are expensive. In the US, anyway . That link mentions that the cost is much lower in India, although the service provided is essentially identical. Probably it costs more to train the people who conduct/interpret the test in the US, and I gather the machine is priced a bit higher, but there are other factors driving up the cost here, as discussed in that piece and in the links. Maybe the hospital sees a way to make a bit of money in this area to offset expenses in other areas, and since insurance usually covers most of it the patient is more inclined to take the benefit of the test (which can be substantial, obviously) and not worry so much about the additional expense. One can understand why insurance companies feel the need to referee medical decisions, even if one is unsympathetic to their bottom-line perspective. From an abstract or uninvolved point of view I guess I could say that the CT test may have been unnecessary in our case, although that's easy to claim in retrospect, but of course we didn't have an abstract perspective and when it's you or your spouse or your kid on the line the definition of "unnecessary test" changes rather dramatically.

This experience hasn't given me any brilliant insight into how we should fix our health care system, but it has provided me with a better understanding of the problems. It seems to me that the players involved acted rationally within the system at every stage, and from my perspective the outcome was good, but was it cost-efficient? Most of the proposed reforms being debated by politicians at a national level involve making changes around the margins: lowering costs on patients by prohibiting insurance companies from discriminating based on pre-existing conditions, lowering costs on small businesses (and insurers) by covering catastrophic care at the federal level, lowering costs on hospitals by reducing the ranks of the uninsured, lowering costs in general by streamlining care and making efficient use of technology (for example making medical records easily available in electronic form to hospitals to reduce the need for shooting-in-the-dark testing). Basically these ideas spread out some of the cost of health care over all taxpayers (so it is paid for on a progressive scale) while retaining some of the cost locally to preserve incentives to minimize expense. This would certainly improve things, but isn't going to radically change the nature of the tough choices we'll need to confront. We'll need to tackle how we as a society feel about end-of-life care, how we handle coverage versus care, how we encourage a healthy lifestyle. We'll also need to confront the reality that having immediate access to outstanding quality care is going to be expensive, and if we want to pay for that then we'll lose something elsewhere: either taxes will go up or services will go down. No free lunch, unfortunately.

I know some people here have previously discussed their experience with our health care system (maybe they'll provide links in comments) and I imagine others here have their own anecdotes, either first-hand or otherwise, that shed further light on the issues. Like I said I have no easy answers but maybe we can come to some consensus as far as identifying problems and potential improvements.

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It would probably be cost-effective for the system as a whole if pediatrics were open for normal business on weekends. However, it probably wouldn't make financial sense for the pediatrics hospital (which is distinct from the facility that has the ER here) and it's not clear that it makes substantial financial difference to families with insurance coverage, so it won't happen.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Thanks Brendan

I had a similar experience to yours, with one major exception.

Our two year-old, like most, has a lot of energy.  So last winter/early spring my wife took him to the mall where they have an indoor play area.  It consists of large, exaggerated sports paraphernalia made of some combination of rubber foam and plastic which the kids jump on, run around, and slide down.

My wife was catering to our one year-old and did not see what happened, but apparently our two year-old collided with another kid of similar age and became severely disoriented, perhaps even blacking out for a few seconds (my wife said he went limp and his eyes rolled back but he came to after about ten to fifteen seconds). He had a collision similar to this about 6 months before, and my wife thought he had a minor spasm/convulsions/seizure shortly after this second incident when she was at a park walking with him while he slept.

Like you, we decided to check out the situation just as a precautionary measure. Our difference is that our kids are covered with CHP+ , Colorado’s version of the SCHIP plan that Bush vetoed. This is a form of state-sponsored healthcare but is reserved for children with families who make too much for Medicaid but not enough for private insurance (our situation).

It was a struggle to find a doctor we were compatible with and that accepted the CHP+ plan, but we finally found one in a neighboring town. He is great about seeing us with short notice, so he looked over our son. His preliminary thought was that our son had a few minor concussions, but since he did not throw up or have noticeable convulsions (I personally think my wife is a bit paranoid and took his dreaming twitching for a convulsion), he did not see anything to be concerned about, but decided we also should get a CT scan.

We scheduled an appointment for a few days later, which I thought was remarkable. We received great care while the test was performed (our two year-old was amazingly cooperative), and luckily it came out normal.

I was very satisfied with the care we received. It seems that, though we had government healthcare, we were not treated like second-class citizens. We did not have to wait long periods of time, and we got the same precautionary tests as those with more resources. This is not an isolated incident. We had a breathing apparatus (they have a more technical name, but I can’t think of it now) delivered to our door for free in less than 24 hours after the doctor ordered it when my two-year old had some chest cold/flu symptoms.

I know at a mass scale, it would be cost-prohibitive or would create longer waits if we had this care for everyone, but I think we should start with those that need it first (children, elderly, physically and/or mentally disabled) and work our way up from there (working poor, etc.).

I have hope that the Obama team will find some kind of balance between coverage and care.

 

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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Sorry about the HTML gibberish

but it won't let me back in to edit it.  Feel free to alter the comment if you can (this site does not like me anymore).

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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Lemme make sure you still have admin permissions

and I edited the comment too.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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I guess I should clarify

It let me in to edit, but it only showed the last line of my text.  I have no idea why.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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Yeah, the wysiwyg editor

is kind of annoying. I had to click on "Source" and then edit that.

I lost the first draft of this diary when I hit the backspace key and it went back to the previous page instead of back one space inside the text. Usually I save as I go but I was in a hurry. Of course then it took much longer, since I had to retype everything.

Maybe I'll start using the plain text editor again instead...

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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That is good to hear

and how it should be in terms of care, and I'm glad everything was ok with your kid. It would be nice if it were easier to find doctors that accepted the state insurance.

It makes all kinds of sense to me that there should be free high-quality care available for children, since kids can't earn money for themselves and don't control the circumstances of their birth. Every now and then you hear some horror story about what should have been a treatable illness escalating because care wasn't obtained in time, and there's no reason that should happen. From a cold-blooded perspective, it's probably more expensive anyway. This is also an issue with dentistry, when little cavities can turn into serious problems if left untreated.

The other groups you mention should also be covered under similar principles, and I guess we do try to do that although I don't know that I can give an informed opinion on how successful Medicare and Medicaid are in practice.

 

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Likewise

I got so wrapped up in writing my own piece that I forgot to mention that I am glad your son is doing well also.

About Medicare and Medicaid, some author (I am unable  to definitely track down the who he or she is at the moment) says there is a black hole of coverage between being able to afford insurance and qualifying for government assistance.  Most people that make between $10 and $18 per hour or salary equivalent fall within this range, which makes up a substantial number of the lower middle-class.

These are the people who most need additional help.

(Edit): Thanks Tlaloc for linking your diary here.  How are you doing ,anyway?  I hope your MS is stabilized. 

The author I referred to above I also linked to and discussed in a comment in Tlaloc's diary.  She is Elayne Clift, and here is the link to her article if anyone is interested.

BTW, update from my comment in Tlaloc's diary: my two year-old did not have to have the surgery.  It was a misdiagnosis by two specialists.   The third specialist, who focused solely on children discovered there was nothing wrong, so we did not have to have the surgery.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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Still on the meds

no events/attacks since the first one back in july 2007.  I'll be on these meds for one and possibly two more years (barring some complication where I have to switch).  Other than having to take them three times a day these meds are great.  They're pills, and the worst side effect is that sometimes I get really flushed and feel warm, I can live with that.

I left my job at Intel (I'll admit it now that I don;t work for them anymore) at the end of OCtober and moved back down to Eugene.  It's a risk.  Right now I'm using COBRA to continue my health insurance from Intel, but it is expensive.  If I don;t find a decent job soonish I may have to let the insurance lapse and pray that we get a better health care system in place before the MS study concludes.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Unfortunately, though,

I have scant hope that the new, incoming Obama Administration will do anything to make our healthcare system really decent and work for everybody, like it should, especially  because Obama's also against the single-payer system. 

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Only tangentially related,

but this personal story involving medical ethics is a must-read and so I will take the liberty of linking it here under the general category of health care.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Here's a link

to my previous diary on the topic:

www.swordscrossed.org/node/1962

I can't think of anything more mentally gruelling then knowing a loved one may need medical help and not being able to provide it because of money.  I can't describe the helplessness, bitterness, self hatred, and desperation.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Some form of single payer system will eventually be how

it'll work.  Whether in conjunction with private (more likely) or just plain ole national health (less likely).  We make fun of the Canadian's & Brittish but they actually LIKE thier health insurance and it costs them about a third what ours costs us.

Just imagine, if the government offered health insurance, US manufacturers would be at a competative disadvantage with the rest of the world.

PS- glad the baby's cool.  Can your Dad get an ablation?

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From what I understand, however,

 Britain and Canada have healthcare that's free, as do most, if not all of the European countries.

Hope an ablation for your father's possible.  Glad the baby's OK.

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Health Care Choices

As I explained to skymutt when I met him last month or so, our health care system doesn't work according to supply and demand because we demand that emergency rooms see anyone without regard to their ability to pay for treatment or services.

What it all boils down to is ensuring that everyone has the ability to pay.  The only failsafe way to ensure that is with some sort of government plan (be it state-run, fed-run, etc.).  Of course, that's assuming you want to keep the above caveat in place. 

We can do free market health care, but we have to let emergency rooms turn away patients who can't pay.  That is the end game in just about any capitalist system: if you can't pay for the good or service, you don't get it.  This goes for sports cars or food or health care; all goods and services are created equal.

What would the price of bread be at your local supermarket if anyone who was really hungry could just take it off the shelf and not pay if they couldn't afford it?  It'd likely be a lot higher because the store would have to charge those who could pay more in order to cover the deadbeats.  This is essentially how it works for health care now.  President-elect Obama made this point in the last debate -- that you're already paying for the uninsured in one way or another right now.  Either your taxes are higher for Medicaid spending or your premiums are higher because health care practitioners have to charge more for the same service in order to break even.

So if you like market-driven health care and think it'll "fix the system", that's your call.  However, capitalism doesn't work as advertised without all its constituent components in their place. And the only way it can work properly is if we refuse treatment to those who can't pay.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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getting coverage

One of the things I am most annoyed with the Bush Administration about is their failure, when they had big congressional majorities, to put in place the big tax credit for people who buy their own health care.  McCain talked about it , sort of, in the campaign, but it's too late now, since the dems prefer  more gov't controlled health care. A missed opportunity as far as I'm concerned.  I think the reason, and I don't like to admit it since I'm a Republican, is that many in my party have a hard time understanding the difficulties in getting decent health insurance on your own.

name the enemy, win the war

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