Wednesday Open Thread
Wednesday: The Dow dropped 400 points after mixed reviews of the new and improved bailout plan of the nation's banking system.
Only one story today as I have to keep an eye on my dish for my "Economic Stimulus Potluck" at work. Is anyone else using hot dogs in their Hamburger Helper? :-)
Thursday: Both houses of Congress have came to an agreement over HR 1, the economic stimulus bill that has been debated for the last few weeks.
Today is Charles Darwin's 200th birthday . Happy birthday, Charles!
Submitted by stinerman on Wed, 2009-02-11 10:38
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I believe that you are Ninja too: Net Neutrality
Senator Diane Feinstein Trying to Kill Net Neutrality
Ask A Ninja Special Delivery 4 "Net Neutrality"
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
I've seen this before, but with informants and gov't officials
False Fact On Wikipedia Proves Itself
In short, someone made a false edit. A media outlet copied the false fact, and the outlet is used to prove the false fact.
It's a shame when media personnel are lazier than some undergrad that procrastinates too much.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Not quite there yet...
I have been cooking more food stuffs and eating out less, as it should be. I just have to eat healthier stuff. I'm still eating the just-out-of-college meals--franks-n fries, sandwiches, etc..we have a caf at work and I eat a little better there, but still.
However, I have noticed the price of goods go up. Seriously..$7 for a box of Cheerios? Not when Tasteeos are 2.99 a bag...
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
$7 for cereal
Maybe $3.50 here.
I bought the Meijer-brand Organic Honey Nut "Cherrios" for $3.12.
Poor New Yorker.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
$7.00 is pretty crazy. Is it
$7.00 is pretty crazy. Is it made with trans fats or has it been determined that eating cereal leads to obesity. Either of those would be a quick explanation given the presiding governance.
Healthcare in the stimulus bill
Bloomberg is reporting some interesting stuff about the healthcare provisions
of The Bill:
Hmm...sounds like an HMO on steriods:
And it seems to imply that it will somehow "push out" any other options for healthcare:
I'm all for healthcare reform. But should this level of reform be handled via a stimulus bill that is being rushed through and getting only cursory review of it's 600+ pages, or is it an issue that deserves separate deliberation and discussion? I think it should be separate.
What other "stimulus" items like this are hidden in The Bill?
"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." --R. Heinlein
I, personally, don't see the
I, personally, don't see the logic behind this kind of reform. I find it disgusting that anyone feels it right to determine the level of coverage a person could choose. (please note that I see no problem with an insurance company denying coverage based on the contract agreed upon by the insurer and the insured. It still doesn't keep them from having the treatment, it just means they'll have to pay out of pocket... And yes, I can understand how that equivalent to a denial of treatment... kind of... but not really.)
I would really like it if a supporter of this kind of legislation could explain Daschle's logic to me and how this is good for American Health Care. I suppose I could read his book but, after having heard him speak on several occasions, I'm pretty sure i'd be banging my head against a wall in no time.
The only thing is the Bloomberg piece isn't accurate.
It was trumpeted by Rush & Drudge & a couple other places, but it isn't true.
The money they are suggesting spending in no way directs what care or kind of care a patient will get. They are talking about funding 2 things. Electronic medical records which actually the bush43 Administration started the funding for a few years ago. Most HMO's & Insurance Groups are implementing it now because it is a more accurate way to get the records to the physician right away & it's cheaper. The security protocols won't allow anyone else to see them....Well, I'm sure the CIA could hack them but most folks...it'll be like your bank records.
The second program is the tracking of the efficacy of treatments. This means they will track what works & what doesn't. You know how the drug companies will always release a 'new' drug when the patent runs out on the old one? This will more accurately allow US ALL to see whether or not there is a difference in the results between different regiments. Right now, it's just the Pharma companies that have these studies & they aren't required to make all their results public & they don't. Gee...I wonder why?
So, don't get your panties into a twist over the medical dollars. They aren't doing anything your current Insurance carrier isn't already converting over to.
I wasn't so much talking
I wasn't so much talking about the report as I was Daschle's logic. I already new that wasn't what the funding was all about. And I have no problem with tracking success rates. When an insurance company does it they use it to deny coverage for things that don't work. That doesn't mean I can't still fork over the money to have it done...
My comment was more directly linked
to what Purpleface said, but you followed the thread & I thought adding it after your comment was OK.
None of us wants a grand Poobah somewhere dictating our medical care, especially if that person isn't your own physician. Sadly, that is how most insurance & HMO's operate though. The accountants will say what is permissable & what isn't.
I remember reading Jane Hamsher talking about fighting with her insurance company over whether they would allow a more accurate test for her. This was shortly after she had been diagnosed with breast cancer and her insurance company was telling her they wouldn't approve a more accurate test to see the extent of the cancer. Stuff like that is scary.
Clarification
I wasn't really giving an opinion either way on what Bloomberg reported. Whether spending millions for medical records is a good or bad thing is a separate discussion, as is the idea they implied about "pushing out" other options: I used "implied" deliberately in that original post, since I've not read the bill myself.
My concern is more "should this kind of thing be included in a stimulus bill?" Healthcare is certainly broken, but it's big enough and complex enough that I think it deserves its own bill, including the funding for recordkeeping and whatnot. Ramming it into this bill makes it seem like they feel they could not get it passed on its own, or that they do not intend to address the whole issue any time soon. I can also think of a few scenarios where a recordkeeping system of that magnitude is not necessary for the provision of adequate healthcare, in which case this bill would be wasting money that we can ill afford at the moment.
It just doesn't seem prudent or wise to me.
"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." --R. Heinlein
You are no different than the majority of Americans...
...even the average Barry voter is scratching their head and wondering why we're being told this is a potential economic apocalypse, yet the bill has so little to address the crisis.
I mean we as citizens have to balance our own budgets, it's common sense if you're having money problems you need to cut back, be smart about the dough you do spend, and find ways to create more income, not go out on a shopping spree and run up more credit card debt!
This is nothing more than the liberals using an economic problem to scare people and justify an absurd spending bill.
Duh!
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
Devil's Advocate
It just may be that they think they need to prime the pump.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Fun fact
Did you know that the only class of people in the US who have an absolute guarantee of health care are..... prisoners.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Prisoners+guaranteed...
I'm only half stupid
Which goes back to my position
on health care.
If people who break the law get it for free, then why shouldn't everyone?
I suppose the only way to do it "backward" (ie, charge inmates for health care) is to bill them for it and require it be paid back. I don't see that working too well.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
this is false (health care information)
I just wasted an hour reading a chunk of the bill, and am pretty certain that this is simply false (or perhaps it is just paranoid speculation about where this may lead).
The bill addresses information technology only, not specification of treatment.
The requirements only apply to people providing services on the government's behalf (medicare, etc). There is a provision explicitly excluding the possiblities that government contractors would have to apply this sytem to their entire operations -- they only have to apply it to the work that they do on behalf of the government.
In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.
Thanks for taking the time
Did the conference committee remove the specifics Bloomberg mentioned, the "Council" bit and the "meaningful users" section?
"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." --R. Heinlein
Well.... they have a bill to vote on
65%-35% ratio of stimulus to tax cuts.
Ironically, the nearly $300 billion in tax cuts for the middle class represent the largest tax cut in our nation's history.
More than Bush's $160 billion in tax cuts for the wealthy. More than Reagan's marginal tax rate cuts.
The fact that the cuts go to those making less than $75,000 ($150,000 for couples) and not to the wealthy will make it so the Republicans will never acknowledge that the tax cuts are there.
But the largest tax cut in our history will be signed by Obama by next week. Less than one month into his presidency, fulfilling a key promise of the campaign.
Now... as for the $500+ billion in stimulus.... I'm sure that the GOP will have no issues with publicizing that. ;-)
p.s. For everyone saying the stock market gave its verdict on Geithner's plan yesterday..... be consistent. The market jumped 80 points when the news of the bill compromise came out. The "market" likes the stimulus bill.
--- Your friendly "caricaturer of reality"
I survived the Bush Administration
Because they're going to people who don't pay taxes...
LOL!
What a joke.
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
They don't pay taxes?
Who is not paying taxes?
I just finished filing taxes here in New York. I would probably be considered in the lower tier of "middle class" in NYC because I make a shade under 70,000/yr. I don't know about you, but I paid about 10,000 in taxes last year in federal alone. Plus, I'm sure people also have to pony up the payroll tax. So why do people say people don't pay yaxes? No one gets their full check, if I'm not mistaken.
http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186
+1
I just helped a friend do their taxes.
They made about $30,000 and paid about $2,000 in federal income taxes. They aren't rich by any means. They could use the money and would spend it immediately.
On the other end, I filed a week back or so. My AGI was about $5500. Needless to say I didn't pay any federal income tax this year. The nice/funny thing about this is that I'll have made more money by the end of February than I made all last year.
I did pay $8 in Ohio use tax. That has to count for something! And then, of course, the local income taxes are all flat and have no deductions, so I paid a few $100 in total there.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
And you will get a check from obama...
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
Taxes wear many hats
How much payroll taxes and other Federal taxes did Stinerman contribute?
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
We're talking about income tax...
...have you ever heard of a payroll tax refund?
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
And the difference here
is that I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing today when I'm getting the benefit and I also think it will be a good thing tommorrow when I'm the one doing the paying.
Again, I'd rather this be done at the state level, but I'd rather it be done rather than not.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Good, PM. Now maybe next year,
...he can cut them a little more.
But do keep in mind, PM, that technically, the wealthiest get this tax cut too since they make at least $75,000 as well.
Personally, however, I can still say that the stimulus is still bloated, corrupt, a rent-seekers paradise and full of a lot of non-stimulus-related junk...and sadly, that probably speaks for at least half of the spending...if not 3/4 of it.
The economy better kick it in high gear or we're gonna have run away inflation on our hands like back in the 70s. But I'm sure the economists behind this are already working on their contingency explanations for that likely inflation to keep the attention of its cause off what they are doing right now....which is exactly where the attention will have to go...along with Bernanke's massive injections.
Inflation?
I hear the real fear is deflation.
However I am not an economist.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
One has to be careful with
One has to be careful with the terms inflation and deflation. In traditional economics they mean something entirely different than they do when spoken in normal conversation. Traditionally inflation and deflation are a desciption of the supply of money. In normal conversation they are often used to describe prices which, in a non-fiat system might be accurate. Government officials who say that we need to inject money (read: liquidity trap) to fight deflation are really saying they want to control prices with the short term goal of encouraging spending as opposed to the purchaser waiting for the price to bottom out (read: market clearing price). The alternative understanding is that the injection of money by defecit is in fact inflation of the money supply and so it's traditional inflation. While this may avoid additional taxation in the short run it comes at the cost of growth in the future. Even the CBO admitted this, although I think they under-estimated. Of course, as Keynesians have come to understand, inflation of the money supply matters little when everyone else in the world is in the same boat. This is also a short term approach, but I could keep going on and on.
get ready for monetary oscillations
Since this past fall, when the government started to frantically try to increase demand, I've been expecting inflation to make a come back...hard.
Through 2007, we were facing some pretty severe inflation. Then, all of a sudden, we were facing deflation, and policymakers were trying to counter this (interest rate cuts, lending programs, stimulus spending, etc.).
The problem is that it is practically impossible for policymakers to hit their target. Their actions will inevitably be mistimed due to delays inherent in both information gathering and in acting (even if a complete analysis of the economy were possible). Their current (inflationary) decisions will continue having an effect even after they are no longer appropriate.
The only good analogy I could find was from the Wikipedia article on oscillations:
One last thought ... we have 6 billion people constantly changing their behavior based on their expectations of how everyone else will behave. I'm a bit anxious about the prospect of this ever settling down.
In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.
The stimulus bill isn't a done deal yet.
The House & Senate still haven't officially agreed to terms although everyone says they are close.
I'll bet that the bill is closer to the House version, the House will pass it & the Senate won't. But that's just my gut feeling. I've seen other sites say that's what Obama is hoping too. They say that they think it'll allow Obama to lay down the law when the bill is filibustered or defeated in the Senate. Now that's a wee bit more conspiracy theory than I think, but it is an interesting thought.
Yea! lets celebrate PM,
Yea! lets celebrate PM, Record Spending + Record Tax-Cuts = Record Deficit, go bu, I mean Obama!
You are forgetting to celebrate.
Record jobs losses, record wall street losses, record business closings and the collapse of Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros! Celebrate that for a while John Mark. Woohoo!
I'm only half stupid
You're one of those "two
You're one of those "two wrongs make a right" people, aren't you?
No sir!
But since folks have short a narrow vision and pick and chose what they want to emphasize here, it is highly disingenious to frame this as just spending and forget the why.
I just thought it might be important to remember that there is a cause and effect. As in none of this would have been necessary if the anti-govt, anti-regulation, pro-life, pro-gun party hadn't had their way for the last eight years.
I think the spending is the right solution. So my view, isn't two wrongs make a right, it is trying to right a wrong.
I'm only half stupid
Yes, those pro-gun, pro-life
Yes, those pro-gun, pro-life policies really tanked our economy. :-) One thing that is especially etched in my mind about Bush's policy is spending hikes with tax-cuts, and record deficits, in other words Obama-lite.
;-)
I don't think David Kuo, would walk out on the Obama administration, do you?
I'm only half stupid
I still can't tell. As in
I still can't tell.
So are you completely unaware of the last 30 years events that led to this issue or do you just choose to ignore them and blame then on Bush because it's easier to listen to President Obama whine about what he inherited instead of take responsibility? I honestly wonder if television is the only way you learn about the world around you. Anyone else who spends a few minutes on it seems to be able to take a longer view of things...
Yeah either
I am not as smart or as educated as you, or we have a difference of opinion.
It couldn't possibly be the later, in your mind.
I'm only half stupid
It most certainly could be, but isn't...
Besides the handful of economist ideologues who have come out is support of this bill, how do you justify the idea that spending will do anything positive? Because besides history itself, we sure have a ton of economists that claim otherwise!
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
So in your opinion, there was
So in your opinion, there was no effort towards the deregulation you believe led to our current problem before 2001? Really
? Are you sure
? I mean, you sound pretty sure about it
.
Could you point me to some reading material that might let me into this little world of yours?
I am sure
that the Bush administration put the frosting on that deregulatory cake.
I'm only half stupid
In what way, exactly?
n/t
some stuff to read
If you feel like it you can read these changes during the Bush era that dramatically 'freed' the markets.
CDO rule changes in 2005/ CDO rule changes on whole mortgages 2005/ Moody's still in business after rating Enron Triple A in 2001/ and the SEC make following regs 'voluntary' or ignorable.
http://www.drinkerbiddle.com/files/Publication/a8c6447f-3cbd-4919-9664-0...
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1722275,00.html
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:PITtWTStjgcJ:files.ali-aba.org/thum...
I'm only half stupid
lol. where to start with you.
Well. Let's just go in order then, shall we?
In short, the SEC chose to enact rule 22c-2 of the Investment Company Act
. What's rule 22c-2
of the act? Let's check page 63 to be sure, shall we?
And let's read the next section just for fun.
cool. So anyway, what's the Securities Exchange Act of 1934
? And how about that 19c part
? And who was president for both
those acts
?
But all of that aside, what was the purpose
of the rule change adoption in 2005? Sharing information with shareholders. Interesting. This was a fun excersize. But where is the conspiracy for collapse?
Let's move on...
being the result. I deal with the resulting regulation every.single.day. Who signed that again? I forget. But there's more to the article! Ah yes, Moody's and S&P are bad predicters. FIne, so people should stop listening to them. What's that? They worked themselves into a position of monopoly on stock ratings? Not really, but it's definately as rediculous at Jeep's "Trail Rated" campaign. But they started that in 1974. That's more than 8 years ago, FYI... And finally, probably the piece de resistance of the whole article is this little tid-bit:
As far as Enron is concerned, I don't think you've a leg to stand on if you're concerned about a void in regulation
This is the same falsehood you states previously. Not only was the SEC budget larger under Bush than any previous president, but the staffing was greater as well. I wish he'd written that earlier in the article so I could have just closed the window!
And last but not least the third link. Which was a partial page. And a meaningless partial page at that. Do you have more of it. It just started getting to the point at the end and then that was it...
+5 ...;-)
n/t
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
All is well in utopia
Bush threw money at the SEC while undermining it's regulatory authority to enable the free markets to work their magic. We see how that worked out.
I'm only half stupid
No it's not... This is like
No it's not...
In this case, I'm allowed to talk about the evidence I think makes my point. And so are you. Claiming POV, on SwordsCrossed, is a cop-out. And a pathetic one at that. It leaves me thinking you didn't bother to read what you sent me and were caught off gaurd that I bothered to analyze it at all.
Other memebers of this site discuss fundamentals (even me!) with no issue.
Discussing fundamentals
is how we ended up going to War in Iraq. The pro-war side insisted that there was evidence that supported the case for war because of the threat of WMD. Evidence was presented to make the case that is still disputed. It would seem that some facts have a bias.
So a war of links to facts, and how to proceed isn't always productive, when one side claims the facts say this, and the other side says the facts say that. More important is what have we learned, (facts can lie or be skewed by point of view) and what do we do going forward.
We have learned that there is a lot of corruption in government. We also learn that there is corruption in the corporate world. Or on Wall Street. Or at the local office. So the corruption is not specific to govt or corporations, it is specific to human nature and how folks react to having and accumulating masses of wealth.
I'm only half stupid
Not really. But if it helps
Not really. But if it helps you diffuse the argument then I think I understand your tactic. If you're understanding is that all people are currupted to some extent and so their facts are biased, let me be the first to remind you that would include all of us. Which begs the question. Why are you even here? If you really beleived all that junk you just said, that would make you a loony for coming here repeatedly and not just checking in on coversations but actually tying to participate. It makes no sense. You're obfuscating. Knock it off.
No you misunderstand
I am not saying the facts are biased because all people are corrupt, not at all.
I saying that great wealth has the potential to be greatly abused as a means of influence. Those who understand and count on the appeal of wealth to human psychology can chose to use this knowledge to influence decisions that are both political and commercial in nature.
An example would be the monstrosity that is the 'global warming' debate. There are facts presented to make the case that seem diametrically opposed, with either side refusing to budge an iota. Yet arguably the most rational approach is people need clean air and clean water to survive, no matter how you think that affects the climate overall.
Another example would be richly compensated reps from Big Pharma that hit the media circuit to slander with 'facts' any attempt at universal health care, even though one could argue that health coverage would free small businesses and large businesses to thrive.
(On the smallest scale, it is human nature to 'borrow' that pen and note pad from the office without returning it, while at the same time claiming that it was 'honest' to do so, rationalizing that you deserve 'more' for the work that you do. Or to pack that towel from the hotel into your bag because you 'overpaid' for your hotel stay)
I'm only half stupid
The problem lies in your own
The problem lies in your own examples. You believe those to be true because of your already apparent bias to the solutions. Of course we need clean air and water, but that does not mean that global warming is caused by CO2 emmsisions. It's the start to a really annoying red herring. Your second point is that Universal Healthcare is obvious when you remove the slander of those financially interested. Again, a fallacy. And the same is true of money. Money is not the only influence. It's just the influence people who don't like money will always bring up.
We could go on for days like this, or you could just analyze the facts on their value, as I did, rather than tell me you disagree (which I already knew) and see no way that will change.
The point of the original post you made that I questioned was that you believe our current problem was the product of the last 8 years. I presented a lot of evidence to the contrary. And you said, well I just disagree. In other words, I can't argue with you because any evidence doesn't matter.
Odd.
You totally ignored the main point I was focusing on was the potentially corrosive effect that wealth can have on human nature and how that seeps into government and business, and even hotel stays.
It's difficult to say that you are being objective when you totally ignore what you claim is the most corrupting influence in govt, which is wealth, or taxes and the ability of rich lobbyists to pay to play for corporate influence.
That the SEC stated that following the regs would be voluntary no matter how many people worked there is the point. He was 'freeing the markets'.
I'm only half stupid
They complied with
They complied with regulations already in place from decades ago. How you see that as a problem created in the last eight years is still beyond me. Stop concentrating on the symptoms and correct the disease. Even if I didn't agree with you about it, at least you'd be consistent.
Arrg. Bush threw money at
Arrg.
How am I supposed to have a discussion with someone who keeps changing their responses? There's a preview button, you know.
Please provide evidence of this statment. I mean specifically that Bush undermined the SEC actively. I might agree with passivley in that he knew he appointed a moron to the post. But even that requires a bit of telling. So do tell.
Watch
Harry Markopolos testimony before Congress.
You ask for specific evidence. Well I am not a trail lawyer and the tracks have been fairly well covered, but their is a decided trend line that suggests that team Bush and his minions had a particular disdain for all manner of rules and regulations. (See JackAbramoff/Tom Delay's money laundering scheme).
I would agree with you that there are pounds of crap in our government that need to be steam cleaned and the blatant corruption has left people beyond cynical, but I still argue that we need government and good regulations.
If you want to get even more cynical, Judd Gregg's chief of staff is said to have strong ties to Jack Abramoff's money laundering scandal, which could explain his abrupt withdrawl from Obama's cabinent.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/12/gregg-withdraws-...
I'm only half stupid
Pyrrho
Where do gods come from
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
It has an ampersand
Which will kill the link
here and is also unnecessary.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
It works for me
So maybe you should just use the OS and browser I do.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Yeah
No thanks.
You can pry Debian out of my cold dead hands!
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Two more articles from Sullivan
Yearbook photos
of well-known politicians. Keep an eye out for Mike Huckabee and Dick Cheney. Isn't Nancy Pelosi a fox? *growl*
On a more serious note, Fareed Zakaria takes note of the rock-solid Canadian banking system
. It seems slow and steady does win the race. He also obliquely makes a case for eliminating the mortgage interest deduction in the tax code:
Again, via
Sullivan
.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Eliminate the Pay Roll Tax
See the Video
.
Hat tip to Cafe Hayek
.
Sounds like a pretty good idea.
...and the Alternative Minimum Tax too.
n/t
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
AMT
If that wasn't a sign that the tax code was too complex, nothing ever will be. I can just see the bill being drafted:
"So we've made so many deductions and loopholes that multimillionaires aren't paying any income taxes whatsoever. We need to make an 'undeduction' so that this doesn't happen anymore!"
Any sane person would have eliminated the deductions (and perhaps lowered the tax brackets if need be).
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Purely as a stimulus objective
I'd have to agree. Payroll taxes are regressive and make up the bulk of a low wage-earner's deductions.
However, the programs they pay for (SS is pay-as-you-go as everyone here knows) are pretty important. You'd have to make that up somewhere else.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Good news
Judd Gregg withdrew from his nomination to Comerce Secretary. I am sure he will probably be a much better Senator then what his replacement would have been, who likely would have been a Chafee type Republican.
Praise the Lord!
for small blessings.
I don't know what either side was thinking.
Gregg was for the stimulus bill before he was against it.
And he was against the Commerce Dept before he lobbied to get the job as the Secretary of Commerce.
Why people, like Gregg, that don't believe in government work for the government is beyond me.
I'm only half stupid
Why people ... that don't
I think this is, by far, the most ironic thing I have ever read in my entire life. I'm almost at a loss.
Tell me
about it!
The anti-government crowd wants to manage the government. It's a joke on the American people.
They rail on and on about taxes and then happily lap up the pension, the health care, and the other perks provided by taxes they claim to detest.
I'm only half stupid
This would be a great signature line for you...
Stupefying....
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
Mozilla: Stop complaining and get back to work.
Please! This is not only irritating but unwise.
Mozilla is pressing the EU to impose sanctions on Microsoft over brower issues.
I don't know about you but I use Mozilla 100% of the time. A lot of people do.
Ryan Paul
has the story.
I agree with him. Mozilla's complaining sounds hollow in light of its ever-climbing market share. Competition is alive and well and Mozilla is benefiting from it.
Once again, like like Google before them
, Mozilla is becoming a product of the system and creeping into the "parasite economy" whereby it devouts more and more time and money in using government to get what it wants instead of just by being better than its competitors....the old-fashioned way.
Do read the rest of Paul's article. Very interesting for tech-junkies.
I mean you can't beat it...especially with...
...Ad Block Plus, Fast Dial, PhProxy, NoScript, etc....
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
Well that's a new one
I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone arguing for monopolies before. Let's make things really difficult for competitors so they have to be especially innovative to succeed! Granted, it's got a perverse logic to it, but I would be pretty leery of projecting what happened with the browser market to a more general lesson.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
Nobody is arguing for monopolies
come on, SL. I hold you to a higher standard than that. Don't let me down.
Yes, this is on topic
Breatharianism
And Breatharianism doesn't advocate people starving to death.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
hehehe
oof.
no way.
Well, I honestly thought that
Well, I honestly thought that monopoly-busting was one of the few areas where even Libertarians were OK with government intervention, so this is a new argument to my ears. If you have a problem with the "for monopolies" phrasing, then you can write that off as a lazy semantic shortcut. "For monopolies" equals "against anti-monopoly."
Anyway, using Microsoft as an example of what good can come from a monopoly when government doesn't interfere seems like a weird argument, since the government did interfere
in this case.
We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki
But beyond that, SL
The general lesson from what you describe (though I wouldn't quite word it the way you did) is a good general lesson to take in its proper light.
Monopolies without structural or government-backed strength to perpetuate themselves with no fear of inroads from potential competion are simply unlikely to last. Nothing lasts. Entrepreneurs are born every minute.
And yes, it's quite easy to imagine examples (very connected to real life) where premature interference from government at the behest of whining competitors can set a chain of events in motion that would leave the future playing field stagnant and oligarchic.
Remember our discussion about constantly evolving circumstances, innovations, knowledge, technology and needs. You know about this. Jumping the gun and hitting the panic button only looks sensible when we think there is nothing unknown beyond the end of our puny, measly, myopic little human noses stuck forever in the limited opaque little box we call the present.
And yes, it's quite easy to
You mean like when the big three began to complain about foreign cars and so the Federal Government created import tarrifs in the amount of $1500 per car. So what did the big three do? Raise the price of their cars by $1500 dollars without modifying a single thing. All it really accomplished was three auto manufacturers that spent the next 25 years sitting on their laurels while the foreign auto makers worked their tails off to add value to their cars so that the tarrif would be offset by volume due to customer perception. Fast forward and... well I think you guys know the rest of the story. And I wish that was the only example for just the auto industry. There's more.
I never pass up the chance to pimp Iceweasel
Iceweasel
: Firefox but better. ;-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Britain Reduced to Begging Muslims Not to Attack
The sun has set on the British Empire after all. This once proud country has been reduced to running ads on Pakistani television, begging Muslim bullies
to leave it alone on the grounds that Britain is becoming Islamized. The taxpayer is putting up £400,000 to finance the campaign.
If bureauweenies determine them to be successful, more money will be wasted running the humiliating ads in Egypt, Yemen, and Indonesia.
An alternate approach would be to stop letting Muslims colonize what's left of their country. But then they wouldn't be able to plead for protected dhimmi status.
Hat tip: Jihad Watch
; on tips from SK and Burning Hot
.
Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman
Dutch anti-Muslim politician
Dutch anti-Muslim politician turned away from Britain at Heathrow
"[UK Treasury Minister] credited Britain's growing Muslim population with raising the public profile of all faiths because secular commentators are afraid to criticise them."
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Top National Security Threat is the Economy
Dennis Blair, the new Director of National Intelligence, testified yesterday as to the threat assessment of the global economic turmoil, and the unrest and instability that could outpace terrorism as the most urgent threat facing the US.
The most important yet difficult issue we face is getting our banking industry to function and to get credit flowing again.
Keeping financial markets alive and preventing the world economy from sliding into a recession must take precedence over all else.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/washington/13intel.html
I'm only half stupid