Weekend Open Thread

I figured I'd post it a wee bit early since I'm going to have my hands full with a PC rebuild tomorrow afternoon.

Mike Judge's new animated comedy, The Goode Family , pokes fun at liberals, and has had mixed critical reactions.  Did anyone happen to watch, and if so, what did they think of it?

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My take on The Goode Family

It had its moments, but it wasn't funny enough to stick around for too much longer. 

I figure the pilot probably won't be the best episode of the bunch (as most pilots aren't), but I think it could be a very funny show if properly done.  I'm a pretty big Mike Judge fan, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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This position by Gates is laughable ... and another Obama = Bush

moment.  :)

First we have the following:

Gates draws the line on North Korea's nuclear program: No proliferation

"For there to be a peaceful solution requires multilateral efforts and a willingness to impose real sanctions that bring real pain," he said.

...

The George W. Bush administration often was criticized for eschewing multilateral approaches to security problems. Gates made it clear that the new administration has no such reservation.

Well it is true that Bush was criticized for eschewing multilateral approaches to security problems ... it just isn't true that he ever did anything unilaterally.  Afghanistan?  Iraq?  These were both actions by coalitions, not unilateral actions.

However this comment is especially funny given what Bush actually did with respect to North Korea.  Unless my memory is failing me, Bush had always argued that we should have six party talks with North Korea which is why he refused to hold bilateral negations with them in the first place.

The Wall Street Journal lays out the North Korean timeline:

North Korea and Diplomacy
A time-line of Bush futility holds lessons for Obama.

Right after North Korea's first nuclear test, in October 2006, Senator Bob Menendez explained that the event "illustrates just how much the Bush Administration's incompetence has endangered our nation." The New Jersey Democrat hasn't said what he thinks North Korea's second test says about the current Administration, so allow us to connect the diplomatic dots.

At the time of the first test, the common liberal lament was that Kim Jong Il was belligerent only because President Bush had eschewed diplomacy in favor of tough rhetoric, like naming Pyongyang to the "axis of evil." Never mind that the U.S. had continued to fulfill its commitments under the 1994 Agreed Framework, including fuel shipments and the building of "civilian" nuclear reactors, until the North admitted it was violating that framework in late 2002. Never mind, too, that by 2006 the Bush Administration had participated in multiple rounds of six-party nuclear talks, or that it had promised to normalize relations with the North.

Nevertheless, President Bush adopted the views of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who had internalized the views of Bush Administration critics. Led by Christopher Hill (now President Obama's ambassador in Baghdad), the U.S. announced the resumption of the six-party talks -- only three weeks after the first North Korean test. Mr. Hill also held direct bilateral talks with the North Koreans, something Pyongyang had long sought and Mr. Bush had long resisted.

...

As the article quite correctly points out Bush was basically doing everything the Democrats said should be done, beginning with Bill Clinton who gave the North Koreans the nuclear material that they are now using to threaten the world.  So, after having followed their advice we now know that the North Koreans have never had any intention of honoring any agreements and that the diplomacy ... even multilateral diplomacy ... has failed miserably at the task of restraining the North Korean nuclear ambition.

So what's Obama's new and more enlightened plan for change here?  Well, no real change.  He plans to adopt, again, the policies of the Bush administration and the advice of the Democrats that only diplomacy can fix this problem.  In other words, he promises us more of the failed policies of the past.  Gee, how original.

 

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I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
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Taibbi is on

As is usual for him .

Why is the Gitmo decision classic Democratic Party thinking? Because when certain of us said we wanted Gitmo closed, we sort of meant a change in policy - we didn’t mean just physically closing the plant, moving the prisoners elsewhere, and leaving the policies essentially unchanged. This is what this generation of Democrats does every time: every time they come to a fork in the road, they try to take it.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Who doesn't love a good metaphor

"Eight years of Clintonian squirming was bad enough, but now we have Barack Obama, smoking Habeas Corpus and not inhaling it."

 

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How to Teach a Child to Argue

How to Teach a Child to Argu e:

Why would any sane parent teach his kids to talk back? Because, this father found, it actually increased family harmony.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

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Another Obama WTF momment

I suppose things aren't so tough all over...
A spokesman read a statement from Obama: "I am taking my wife to New York City because I promised her during the campaign that I would take her to a Broadway show after it was all finished.

The president traveled in a smaller, Gulfstream-type plane rather than the larger planes typically used as Air Force One. 
The Republican National Committee slammed the outing in an "RNC Research Piece": "As President Obama prepares to wing into Manhattan’s theater district on Air Force One to take in a Broadway show, GM is preparing to file bankruptcy and families across America continue to struggle to pay their bills. ...
Have a great Saturday evening – even if you’re not jetting off somewhere at taxpayer expense. ... PUTTING ON A SHOW: Obamas Wing Into The City For An Evening Out  While Another Iconic American Company Prepares For Bankruptcy."

I guess all the cool things they get to do as the first family just aren't enough for the Obama's. For what it cost for Obama to see the show, all of us regulr SC'ers could have paid off our mortgages.
Oh well maybe Obama just felt bad about that big celebrity filled shing ding he attended out in Las Vegas to benefit Harry Reid, I mean what happens in Vegas..., so he wanted to treat her...I wish he had remembered another of his promises to us;

You can’t get corporate jets. You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayers’ dime. There’s got to be some accountability and some responsibility, and that’s something that I intend to impose as president of the United States.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Obama's pile of lies are...well, piling up!

Roll Call is reporting that during the typical Friday afternoon document dump — a practice used to hide actions that might prove somewhat embarrassing to the White House — the administration quietly announced that some of the former restrictions on lobbying ballyhooed about during the late campaign have been lifted.

Let special interests ring!

Roll Call (see here , but subscription is required) says that the administration lifted bans on lobbyists that have some part of spending “stimulus” funds. So now getting hooks into bloated federal spending is open season for the very lobbyists that Obama pretended to disdain only months ago.

So much for hopinchange.

Read it

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Executive Orders and the Law ...

Since we have been discussing this in other threads I decided to look up a few things to make sure I wasn't over-reaching with my positions.  To that end, I dug up the following three items:

They are all worth reading if you have an interest in understanding some of the nuances here.  My conclusion based on reading through them is that the issue is not as clear cut as one might expect, but in general my position is correct at least on a technical level.  The Supreme Court agrees with me:

In the framework of our Constitution, the President's power to see that the laws are faithfully executed refutes the idea that he is to be a lawmaker. The Constitution limits his functions in the lawmaking process to the recommending of laws he thinks wise and the vetoing of laws he thinks bad. And the Constitution is neither silent nor equivocal about who shall make laws which the President is to execute. The first section of the first article says that "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States ...." After granting many powers to the Congress, Article I goes on to provide that Congress may "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof." [Youngstown Sheet & Tube v. Sawyer.]

That is the theory, at least.  The nuance seems to come in because even though an Executive Order is not technically a Law, since the Executive is responsible for enforcing the law they can, in effect at least, have the force of a law until such time as the Courts or Congress explicitly take action to check what is generally recognized as an abuse of the Executive Power by straying into the area of actually trying to make laws.

So, read into an Executive Order what you will, but technically it is NOT a Law ... even though it may feel like one!  :)

 

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I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
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An executive order

is considered law.

It is technically not a law, but is essentially a law.

Which is what I said in the first place. 

Granting pardons is essentially by Executive Order. We see that is considered valid by law.

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You should stop trying to play a lawyer, ML.

Granting pardons is essentially by Executive Order. We see that is considered valid by law.

Well, no, pardons are not Executive Orders in any sense of the term.  We see that as valid because the President is explicitly granted the authority to issue pardons by the Constitution ...

Article II Section 2 :

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Read the rest of the document too and note what it does NOT say.  It does NOT say that the President has the authority to "make laws".

Affirmative Action was created via Executive Order which, by definition and in the opinion of the Supreme Court as quoted above, is NOT a law simply because the President retains no such law making power.  Here, let me quote the most relvant part for you again:

In the framework of our Constitution, the President's power to see that the laws are faithfully executed refutes the idea that he is to be a lawmaker. The Constitution limits his functions in the lawmaking process to the recommending of laws he thinks wise and the vetoing of laws he thinks bad.

[Youngstown Sheet & Tube v. Sawyer.]

What part of that do you not understand?  Do you not believe the Supreme Court's opinion in this case?

 

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I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
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You're talking past each other

ML is saying that executive orders might as well be law since they carry the same force as law.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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A distinction without a difference

 With the law you cite,  the President has the power to issue an executive order. 

 Executive orders are directives that facilitate, but do not violate the intention of the law. 

 Here is an example.

 

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/11...

 Executive Order 11967--Relating to violations of the Selective Service Act, August 4, 1964 to March 28, 1973

 

Source: The provisions of Executive Order 11967 of Jan. 21, 1977, appear at 42 FR 4331, 3 CFR, 1977 Comp., p. 91, unless otherwise noted.

The following actions shall be taken to facilitate Presidential Proclamation of Pardon of January 21, 1977:

[......snip......]

4. Any individual offered conditional clemency or granted a pardon or other clemency under Executive Order 11803 or Presidential Proclamation 4313, dated September 16, 1974, shall receive the full measure of relief afforded by this program if they are otherwise qualified under the terms of this Executive Order.

 

 

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I'm not really sure what you think you have demonstrated here.

What is your point, actually?

So you found an Executive Order that talks about Pardons?  Big deal.  That doesn't make an Executive Order the same thing as a Law.

As with almost all Executive Orders, this one is a directive from the President to an Agency under his control providing guidance to said Agency as to how they are expected to conduct their business and, in so doing, specifying how they are to wield HIS power granted to HIM by the Constitution and which is thereby delegated to THEM on HIS behalf.

Telling someone how he wants them to execute his power and his mandate to "enforce the law" is in no way "making law."  The President cannot and does not "make law."

Again, show me where in the Constitution the President is granted the power to "make law".  Do that and I will concede the point, but he is not and the Supreme Court concurs as I have already demonstrated.  I have yet to see anything from you other than your own fantasies to suggest that, legally speaking, the President is able to "make law".

Executive orders are directives that facilitate, but do not violate the intention of the law.

I agree 100%.  But if Executive Orders are constrained by the Law as defined by Congress then they do not stand on equal footing with them.  They are subordinate to the Law and are, therefore, NOT the same thing as a Law.

 

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I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
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News quiz from Pew

http://pewresearch.org/newsiq/quiz/

 

12 questions on current events, and stats on how well Americans perform.

In my expert opinion, you should do what I tell you to do.

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82nd percentile

Missed one.  The Iraqi war deaths.  Which was the most missed question; only 38% got that one right.

 

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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Ha, we must be twins ...

No offense to your Purple barred self, of course!  :)

 

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I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
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Geez, gender gap :-(

Average male score = 52nd percentile

Average female score = 32nd percentile

 

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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Maybe Miss South Carolina

Had trouble with the Afganistan border question.

Thank got there are no male beauty pageants.  Or if there are I don't want to know about them.

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Interesting.

I missed one question, which if I went with my first instinct as you are supposed to do I would have gotten right.  I wasn't sure whether a certain US automaker had taken any funds or not ... and so as not to give anything away suffice it to say my initial reaction was correct but my final answer was not.  :(

 

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Missed the debt question

which is BS, I'm positive Japan holds more debt than China.  Gotta look this up.

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Hmm not according

to wikipedia .  I wonder when China passed Japan.

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Same here

I was under the impression it was Japan as well.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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It may be a

purchasing power adjustment thing.  Japan has a way higher cost of living than China.

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Actually, China passed Japan

in Sept. 2008, according to the treasury .  It didn't make many headlines, probably because most people already assumed China held the most debt.

Unfair question, designed for the ill-informed to get it right by accident and the casually interested to be out of date :(

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Me

 12 out of 12 correct.

  (pats self on back for being nerdy enough to know the answers)

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I missed the last 2... It's

I missed the last 2...

It's scary that 31% of the respondents didn't correctly state that Afghanistan and Pakistan shared a border.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

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Try New Jersey

IIRC, there was a test of sorts among the 18-25 crowd.  Half of them couldn't find New Jersey given a map of the US.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Bill O'Reily has no class

 I watched just a few moments of his show, he O'Reily who has compared Dr. Tiller to Hitler the mass murder the fetus, is still spewing hate.

 His guests can barely hide their glee that Dr. Tiller is dead.

 Sickening.

 Question: If abortion is 'murder', and the doctor is a killer, what about the mother's responsibility here?

If abortion is murder, and as Bill O'Reilly continues to claim that Dr. Tiller particpated in the 'holacaust', of 'murdering' 60, ooo innocent fetuses, then why don't they put 60,000 mothers in jail for murder.

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By the pro-life argument

The doctor committed pre-meditated murder and the mother contracted out the doctor to kill her unborn child.  That makes it conspiracy.
AFAIK, that's the death penalty in both cases for states that have such a penalty.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Yes it is

I don't normally watch O'Reilly, but he has literally been on a jihad that promotes this sort of vigilante violence.

These people are not that far removed from the tea-bagger secessionists who sanction the same sort of vigilante hatred against our own American government in the name of some idealized sense of justice that they think requires violence as a cure.

What's even scarier is that the extremists in Operation Rescue are proud of their 'accomplishments'.

 

 

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I have no problem with secession

In fact it is what made our country.

Texas wants to leave?  I'll help them move.

Violence?  Not until all other methods of change have been thoroughly exhausted.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Murder's a legal term.

What Tiller did, by the definition in U.S. criminal law, was not murder.  They can call it killing if they like, but using the term "murder" is dishonest.

And the wording matters, because acting to stop a murder can be a valid defense against the charge of murder itself.

There is no such justification, anymore than if I were to try to justify killing a prosecutor, judge or jury as agents of executions that I find morally repugnant.  And it doesn't matter than unborn babies are more deserving of sympathy than convicted murderers.

Calling doctors who perform abortions "murderers" is inflammatory, dishonest, irresponsible and despicable.  Morally, I would not put it far above pure hate speech.

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A very cool graphic

I found this most interesting.   It's a rendering of the volume of Earth's water (blue dot) and air (pink dot) as compared to the planet itself.

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

…………

Air means nothing

Not without pressure measurements. 

Since gas is the only form of matter that can be compressed, the "volume" of a certain amount of air is meaningless.  One can always change the amount of space a gas will take up, given enough pressure.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Really?

;-)

I think he included that in the calculations.  The footnote gives the mass assumption, IIRC.   

As a comparator, this works OK for me.  But for the atmosphere, I do prefer shuttle photos best.  Unlike its depicted in most drawings, the atmostphere is really more like the skin on an onion, not some wide donut around the planet.

 

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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It wasn't clear

I had the same problem interpreting it.  If the radius is only a function of mass, does the graph assume equal densities for water and the earth crust (3.3 times heavier) and total mass (around 9 times greater)?  If so, they're comparing volumes, and you need to specify air temperature and pressure.  If not, the graph is a bit misleading because the total volume of the water sphere would not fill the earth's oceans.

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Data

According to this link , table 2, the total estimated volume of water is 1.4 billion cubic kilometers.   At normal (i.e. constant) water density, that cube should convert to a sphere with a diameter of 1,390 kilometers, the size of the sphere in the photo which has been scaled to the size of the planet (12,756 km diameter).  Someone else will have to do the math on that, I'm too old.   And obviously too trusting ;-)

Stiney, you're our math major.   Does 1.4 billion cubic km convert to a sphere with a diameter of 1,390 km?

That's why the photo is so cool.  Because we tend to think the ocean is vast.  Compared to the planet, it's not. 

The atmosphere calculations would be more complex.  Deriving the estimated volume of air based on normal surface density and pressure would require more steps.  But once that's done, conversion of that cube to a sphere would follow the same mathematics.

 

"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."  --R. Heinlein

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Excel works fine

The Earth is about 1,086,230,340,743
or
1.09 Trillion cubic kilometers

"....you're our math major. Does 1.4 billion cubic km convert to a sphere with a diameter of 1,390 km?"

Yep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

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Brutus took AP Calc with me

He is more than qualified to answer the question. :-)

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Conservatives, the economy, and the so called Stimulus money...

It would behoove Republicans to heed the lead of conservatives like our great Governor Mark Sanford. As interest rates shoot up, the bond market crashes, inflation spikes, taxes go WAY up and the other resulting consequences of Obama's reckless spending become more evident to the average American, it is the winning ticket, both politically and economically.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Preaching doom and gloom

 might not be a winning slogan.

 You have to offer a solution. So far I have heard no constructive optimistic  solutions from the right, except maybe anarchy.  I

" Hate the government. Be outraged. Be afraid." Would that be the campaign slogan?

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No, actually, it wouldn't ...

Be fiscally responsible.  Live within your means.  Don't mortgage your grandchildren's home to pay your own living expenses.

That would be more the message we see laying out here, and as the data on the ad demonstrates, even a majority of the Democrats resonate with it.

 

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I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
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It's okay GR, they'll get used to the idea sooner than they

think they will...LOL ! Let the revolution begin!!!!!

BRUSSELS – Europe leaned to the right Sunday as tens of millions of people voted in European Parliament elections, with conservative parties leading or favored in many countries...

Obama was having fun on vacation till the election results flowed in, when he suddenly jetted back to the White hause leaving Michelle and the girls to find ways to spend their new found millions in Paris.

How will Obama spin this one? Who will he punish for this failure?

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Scary stuff

 While some muslim nations are turning more liberal the Europeans are electing neo-fascists?

 

 This is a little frightening.

 in Hungary the neo-fascists could win with campaign cat calls, like....

 "So-called proud Hungarian Jews should go back to playing with their tiny little circumcised tails," said Christina Morvay, who may well win a seat in Strasbourg and Brussels."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/07/rightwing-hungary-europea...

 This could get a little too interesting.

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Typical over-bloviation on ML's part...lol

If the conservatives come into power, as they have in France with Sarkozy, Europe will not fall back into the 1930's.

They'll simply be a step closer on the road to real recovery, a step ahead of us, ...for now... ;-)

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Someone has to counteract the

over- bloviation from the right.

 

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That's old and stale

 That is what the GOP has said for the last 40 years. Just words.

 

 

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And that's the one thing I genuinely thank Obama for too...

...driving the conservative agenda to the fore, and forcing the GOP to get it's political shit together.

Cause those "words", are a welcome relief to a lot of Americans you'll be hearing from here in 2010, and 2012. lol

As the R's sweep back into office!

;-)

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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His popularity is still

 high. 

  I want eight years of Obama goodness. ;-)

  Like it not if the GOP comes across as immigrant bashing gay hating bigots I can't see them expanding their voting base much beyond what it is now.

 

  

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Hold on to that thought ML...

I'm sure the EU wasn't planning an abrupt political right turn either only 6 months ago, but thanks to Obama...

;-)

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

………… parent

Hehehe1

 

 "I want eight years of Obama goodness. ;-)"

Dream on, honeygirl.  Obama will sell you down the river,  just like his predacessor(s) before him.  He's shown signs of that already, having screwed up on our healthcare reform, our war in the mideast, the refusal to release the torture pictures, and other stuff.  The fact that Obama voted for the FISA Bill, which means extended and expanded powers for illegal spying on American citizens, and for the continued funding of our war in Iraq even AFTER having gone on record as being opposed to it, while he was still a senator, should've sounded an alarm.  

Your desperation being that of a person who's been stranded in the desert and now gasping for water is understandable, given the fact that we've had a total moron, G. W. Bush, at the helm for eight years, but accepting any kind of pablum that's being fed to you as long as its by the Democrats and not the Republicans is something I can't quite grasp.  

 

 

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I am a fool

  Who will no doubt be disappointed.

 I do believe that Obama is making a good faith effort against long entrenched interests vested in the status quo. I don't expect miracles, and I certainly am aware that no party or person is perfect. 

  I will be sure and let you know which day I am most disappointed so you can stop by and kick me in the teeth when I am down. It should make your day.

 

 

 

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What could possibly give you this idea?

 I do believe that Obama is making a good faith effort against long entrenched interests vested in the status quo.

Is it the lobbyists in his administration, the continuation of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the return to military tribunals or reservation of the right to use enhanced interrogation techniques...

What exactly...?

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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It doesn't matter what he does

you will demonize him.

If he left Iraq now, you would demonize him.

If he kept Gitmo open you would demonize him.

If he closes Gitmo you will demonize.

 Considering the steaming pile of maggot infested crap that was handed to him, particularly with the global financial meltdown, he has done reasonably well.

 One thing I am sure of, no matter what Obama does he will never have your respect.

 

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Not so..

If he would of nominated a reasonable constitutionally awake individual, he'd have my respect.

If he would have not lied about Iraq and GITMO just to win an election then emerged victorious without a plan, he'd have my respect.

If he would have shown the respect to a slain soldier in at least the same terms he did a serial late term abortionist, he would have my respect.

Don't try and demonize me, or suggest it is me with the problems here, when the real issues are with the Presidents integrity.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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For Centinel and missliberties:

 Centinel:  There's much that I agree with you in  your above-mentioned post.  However, I support abortion rights, and the right to have a late-term abortion, if need be.  That's one right/choice that should never, ever, under any circumstances be taken away from a woman.  Dr. Tiller's coldblooded murder was horrible, and I hope the people who gunned this man down for sticking with his principals and doing what he felt was necessary and just is put behind bars, permanently, with no parole, which is where he belongs, imho.

missliberties:  I think that you and the others in the "President Obama can do no wrong" crowd are basically no better than the people who defended President G. W. Bush every inch of the way.  That's how I see it.

 

 

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I don't believe you

Did you forget that your side lost the election and that Obama is a democrat?

  Nobody tried to demonize a solider, except in your hysterical imagination.

  There is nothing this democratic president or any other democratic president could do that you would  not continue to find fault with. 

  

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Classic case of "victim derangement syndrome".

The whole world's against me and my Obamassiah!  Boo hoo.

You got it bad, ML.  I mean BAD.  :P

 

Meta: This post is just meant to be funny.

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People extract different lessons from given situations, so,

 having lived through the past 8  years with a total moron (Pres. G. W. Bush) at the helm, I've learned NOT to bet the farm on things and to get my  hopes up too high.  I, too, see things differently than you do, missliberties, and, it's too bad if you've got a problem with that.  Imho, the "Obama can do no wrong" crowd is no better than the people who defended President George W. Bush every inch of the way.   THAT'S how I see it.

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Words of wisdom

 from someone who hated Obama from the get go.

 It's no surprise that you still don't like him. What's new? 

 Of course he has made and will make mistakes. Duh! 

 

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You just don't get it, ML ...

Of course he has made and will make mistakes. Duh!

He's not only making his OWN mistakes, he's actually adopting Bush's as well! *

 

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* That is if we are to believe the Democrat rhetoric about Bush over the past 8 years.

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Pure Garbage

I don't recall Bush making speeches abroad to weed out muslim extremists, by praising muslim moderates, do you?

I do recall Bush filling the Justice Department with 4th Tier Christians from the Jerry Falwell school of Jesus because only people with moral values that oppose abortion should be in the Justice Department. (the same christian wing that is celebrating the murder of a doctor)

I do recall Bush asking private contractors rebuilding Iraq if the were for or against abortion before he hired them.

I do recall Bush saying that the Iraq War was (like a christian) crusade.

I do recall Bush implying that Republicans owned God.

I don't recall Bush being able to rally folks to get rid of extremists in Afghanistan, do you?

I don't recall Bush ever pushing any kind of diplomacy with Iran, do you?

I don't recall Bush ever proposing any regulations on Wall Street, do you?

I don't recall Bush ever mentioning conservation or the environment, do you?

Can you imagine Bush making an announcement in the Middle East that the US no longer tortures people?

Can you imagine Bush having any democrats in his inner circle?

There is no comparison.

This meme is ridiculous propaganda by the right.

Take a step back.

 Now Imagine Bush's supervision of the Iraq War.

Now imagine Hillary Clinton's supervision of the Iraq War. They would both still be in Iraq, but that does not mean that Clinton's policies would be *just like Bushs*, even if she decided to keep  military tribunals. That's stupid. The only similarity would be that if a Democrat was President, you would be trashing them, as per your golden rule.

 The one area that most concerns me re Obama's policies is his economic team, particularly Larry Summers. I am disappointed that Obama did not immediately nationalize the banks, and put tougher restrictions on Wall Street. 

 

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Weren't you just the other day support CLC in his faux claims

that this sort of thing is "moving the goal posts after having been proven wrong"?

I don't recall Bush making speeches abroad to weed out muslim extremists, by praising muslim moderates, do you?

I do recall Bush filling the Justice Department with 4th Tier Christians from the Jerry Falwell school of Jesus because only people with moral values that oppose abortion should be in the Justice Department. (the same christian wing that is celebrating the murder of a doctor)

I do recall Bush asking private contractors rebuilding Iraq if the were for or against abortion before he hired them.

I do recall Bush saying that the Iraq War was (like a christian) crusade.

I do recall Bush implying that Republicans owned God.

I don't recall Bush being able to rally folks to get rid of extremists in Afghanistan, do you?

I don't recall Bush ever pushing any kind of diplomacy with Iran, do you?

I don't recall Bush ever proposing any regulations on Wall Street, do you?

I don't recall Bush ever mentioning conservation or the environment, do you?

Can you imagine Bush making an announcement in the Middle East that the US no longer tortures people?

Can you imagine Bush having any democrats in his inner circle?

What does any of this have to do with what we were discussing?  You moving the goal posts so I must have proven you wrong on ... something?  :P

Now imagine Hillary Clinton's supervision of the Iraq War. They would both still be in Iraq, but that does not mean that Clinton's policies would be *just like Bushs*, even if she decided to keep  military tribunals. That's stupid. The only similarity would be that if a Democrat was President, you would be trashing them, as per your golden rule.

Whoa, there, ML.  I am not merely saying that Obama is doing things similar to how Bush did them, in many cases he is literally adopting the exact same position as Bush did.  Examples?  He is maintaining the exact same position as Bush with respect to wiretapping terrorists.  He is adopting the same policy of holding some Gitmo detainees indefinitely without trial.

Nope, "Obama = Bush" on so many issues that it is becoming hard to see any difference between the two on the truly important topics and policies of the day.

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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More garbage

 heaped on another piles of steaming garbage.

 You are only saying this to aggravate me, so I will no  longer respond to ridiculous lies, or as you call it 'logic'.

 This is no different than you pretending to 'like' Hillary Clinton for the sake of creating partisan divides.

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:

  The pleasure is  mine!  (lol)

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You are a mean person

 I would appreciate it if you would not assume to know what I think and feel just because you are bitter and carry a long standing grudge.

 You have gone out of your way to stick pointy barbs in my direction over and over again and I have tried to ignore them.

 It's strange to me that you take pleasure in going out of your way to hurt other people feelings. 

 If hurting other peoples feelings makes you smile then pat yourself on the back because you are famous for it.

 

 

 

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I too am underwhelmed by Obama's subjectivity...

The White House finally got around to releasing a statement on the jihadi attack against our troops at the Arkansas military recruitment center.

Here is the entire statement:

“I am deeply saddened by this senseless act of violence against two brave young soldiers who were doing their part to strengthen our armed forces and keep our country safe. I would like to wish Quinton Ezeagwula a speedy recovery, and to offer my condolences and prayers to William Long’s family as they mourn the loss of their son.”

“Senseless?” It made perfectly good sense to a vengeful Muslim convert jihadi bent on “killing as many people in the Army as he could.”

For contrast, here is Obama’s full statement on the Tiller murder, issued just hours after the shooting:

I am shocked and outraged by the murder of Dr. George Tiller as he attended church services this morning. However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence.

Malkin has the story :

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Spectacle

For me, when I first heard the latter one mentioned, the setting in the church of the 2nd shooting made a big difference.
The Alabama shooting, I first thought it might be some kid that lost a brother who was in the military, didn't think there were too many Muslims that would go on random killing sprees. That kind of broke the shock of it.

And I heard that Obama breaks his eggs on the smaller end.

----
I'm kind of surprised Michelle went to Oberlin College.
Almost like Christopher Hitchens going to Bob Jones U.

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

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How sickening

that anyone would make this a moral equivalency test and blame the President.

Nonetheless, there are no depths that the hard right wont sink to trying to score political points from a soldiers death.

Truly sickening.

 

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The sickening part is Obama failed...

...to even acknowledge it until he did, and when he did, it was pathetic.

Yet when he can make political hay with Tiller...

Funny how you see the world!

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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The sickening part

 is you even bringing this up as some kind of issue.

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IT IS AN ISSUE ML!

When my fellow Military Service Personnel are slaughtered on the streets of AMERICA by a radical Muslim Jihadist...

...and our President says nothing?

Then when he finally does it sounds like he is sending his sympathy for an person who was involved in a car accident?

But...when some murdering Doctor who crossed his fingers when he took his Hippocratic oath is killed - he is johnny on the spot, strongly condemning it...?

THERE IS A DISCONNECT!

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Murder is murder, whether it be

Murder is murder, whether it be military service personnel being slaughtered by a Radical Muslim Jihadist, or the cold-blooded gunning down of a doctor who performs or performed abortions, BOTH of these acts have to be condemned, swiftly and emphatically.  

As somebody who's adamantly pro-choice, I do NOT condemn the woman who decided to have her baby aborted, however, because I don't consider abortion murder.

 

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I can understand how people come to have this view ...

I don't consider abortion murder.

But only up to a point. *   You stated above that you support even late term abortions (if needed).

How do you feel about partial birth abortions?  Are there any restrictions you would place on its use, or is it simply a matter of maternal prerogative?

 

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* Note that there is a distinction between understanding something and accepting or condoning it.

 

Meta: This post is a serious comment.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Jumping in

As I've said before, I don't know where to draw the line, but a zygote is not a person.  However, I'd consider the abortion of a fetus around week 40 to be murder.

Legally, abortion is a state issue.  However, I'm frankly unsure as to where the minima and maxima lie as to how restrictive or permissive a state may be on abortion.  And to further confuse the issue, I'm not sure what power Congress might have over abortions done where either the doctor or the patient crosses a state line.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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Don't go out on a limb or anything... ;-)

A zygote is a person, if you don't kill it, it will, unassisted, become a full term birth.

40 weeks is a full term birth.

Legally abortion is a federal issue, R v. W, remember?

Constitutionally it is a states issue.

The federal government has no valid right to say jack about abortion, and the states are free to be as restrictive or permissive as they like.

Congress is constitutionally un-empowered in this matter.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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You make a good martyr

 It's all Obama's fault obviously. Is that your point.

 I think you might be losing touch with reality.

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Nevermind - Go play w/ your Obama bobblehead doll.

n/t

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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Have fun talking

 to yourself. 

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At least it would be a rational converstion for a change...

...unlike any you have had around here.

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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It's not your mother's democratic party anymore...

The Democratic Party's attitude to elections is admirable: Win. And recent history has shown it will do anything to do so.

When, if not now, will Republicans develop such a fighting spirit?

Democrats invest - with taxpayer money, mind you - in groups like ACORN that, among other sordid tactics, seek out Skid Row bodies and wheel them to polling places. All the Democratic National Committee needs are vans and smelling salts. Pop culture and the "education system" have done the rest, making "D" the default choice on Election Day.

Democrats brazenly take policy positions - think government services and even amnesty for illegal immigrants - not because they are the right thing to do, but because they are time-tested demographic bribes. Forget cigarettes and beer, Democrats would distribute needles, methadone, medical marijuana and biscotti in voter goodie bags if they could get away with it.

Democrats long ago jettisoned America's melting-pot ideal - E Pluribus Unum ("Out of Many, One") - because it imperils their campaign for permanent rule. Splitting the country into separate identity groups and playing them against each other works a lot better. And anyone who disagrees is a racist.

Win. Win. Win.

Breitbart has the rest

 

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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How naive

As if Republicans don't have the "win at all costs" mentality! We've had Republicans "purging the voter rolls" to remove black voters, we've had them jamming Democratic Help Center phone lines on Election Day, we've had them gerrymandering districts in violation of the Voting Rights Act...

And as if the Republicans are not also guilty of splitting the country into separate identity groups! That is the whole point of wedge issues, as championed by Karl Rove.

It's fine to call out the nasty political tactics of the Democrats, but when it is combined with implications that the poor Republican Party, pure as the driven snow, is completely innocent of such tactics, it comes off as what it is: partisan hackery. Feh.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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Meh

You make allegations of R instances in the past, and no doubt the R party has had its faults, but nothing like the absudities of the current state of operational affiars in the D party.

Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis!

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You're right that

they're "nothing like" what the Democrats are doing.  See, Democrats try to get the underfranchised and the disaffected to vote, i.e. try to better their lot by participating in the electoral process.  And sure, vote for Democrats.

Republicans, instead of trying to compete for those votes,  want to prevent them from voting with absurd claims about voter fraud.  They want to distract them with cultural wedge issues.  They make appeals to phony nationalism and scapegoat minorities for the economic woes caused by Republican policies.

Maybe they should just come out and say it: the whole "one person, one vote" thing isn't working for them.

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No, he doesn't.

Brietbart doesn't have anything at all.  ACORN!? Amnesty?  Drug rehab programs? A garbage bag of gripes about liberals.  If Democrats are doing it for political reasons, all he's really saying is that liberal policies are currently more popular than conservative ones.

If Breitbart wants to accuse the Obama administration of making policy based solely on politics (Aaaah...steeltarrifsmedicarepartDnochildleftbehind...choo!), he needs only to find something Obama's doing that's going against his stated principles.  I'm sure there are examples.  Gitmo waffling, defense spending or healthcare hedging come to mind.

But he's isn't doing that.  He's saying "I don't like liberal policies and therefore must impugn the motives of anyone trying to enact them".  Weak, petulant and irrelevant to substantive policy debate.  Hmm maybe he's just following the Republican playbook.

 

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